who have brojo reported for epo?

mrr82 wrote:

Not to mention often pawns of agents who sometimes dont' even know they're being doped.

What's funniest is that you're naive enough to believe that.

Cheruiyot & Tergat don't train in Flagstaff

A journalist fromt the UK contacted me so I'll post the questions i answered for him. I clearly understand that this evidence could not convict someone of doping. That is why I have not revealed their name. But I trust my source and that is why I reported it to USADA.

I'll answer your questions without revealing too much to give away the athlete.

- The athlete(s) in question have/has finished in the top three in a

World Marathon Majors event (Boston, London, Berlin, Chicago, NYC)?

Yes.

- Is that since the WMM series started (ie Boston or London in 2006)?

I reported this incident in 2004.

- They represent an East African nation.

Yes

- When did you send the video to USADA?

I never sent the video to USADA. I called USADA and told them of the video, what it contained and who the shots belonged too.

- What proves/suggests the syringes in the video contain EPO?

The labels on the on the syringes were clearly labelled. I had figured that EPO came in an IV or something (but was wrong). These were clearly labelled shots straight from the manufacturer. I think the labels said "Epoetin-A"

We should probably get the video and put it on the website.

- The syringes belonged to how many people?

One person.

- It has been suggested by some on the message board that the

athlete(s) in question train(s) in Flagstaff, though you have of

course not said the video was shot in that area. Was it shot in

Flagstaff and do they train there?

I don't believe this person has ever been to Flagstaff.

Male or Female?

Well, you just proved my point with those comments. It shows you are HIGHLY suspicious of the East Africans. You state that they've been busted before despite not being tested as much as athletes from other regions, with the the implication being: if they get busted under those lackadaisical testing procedures, imagine how many REALLY are using!

HA HA HA......that's pretty funny wejo. You act like by accusing the Africans of being druggies that you are PAYING THEM A COMPLIMENT! I mean, I see your point: of course they are human like anyone else and capable of immorality, but it's still funny for you to say(more or less)-

'saying these guys are too naive and pure and behind the times to cheat is just an INSULT to them.......and I for one won't stand for it! I will support their intelligence, modernity, wordliness, and humanity by stating: I think they use drugs like anyone else. In fact, I think they might use MORE drugs than anyone else. East Africans, I got your back!'

With friend like you wejo, who needs enemies? :-)

True, but I am SURE that wouldn't like it if you were insinutated of being on drugs because of a reliable comment about a group of athletes that you were part of. Seriously, again, if someone said: "I have evidence that someone who came in the top 5 at the US championships in the 10k in the last 5 years had EPO in their home, and I have the pictures," I don't think you'd like it if some people started guessing it was YOU who was the guilty one. You'd rather the name was named and leave you out of it. Right? Tell me I am not wrong with that thought.

Great, you did the right thing. But if the USADA does nothing, WHY NOT MAKE THIS PUBLIC?? If you are really such a staunch anti-drug crusader as you make yourself out to be, then make it public, and force the hand of the USADA or WADA to subpoena the guy with the tape and investigate. This might help nail the cheater who is guilty, and clear the people who are not. (or at least expose the shortcomings of WADA, which might cause them to change)

Isn't that the RIGHT thing to do???

C'mon.....now your comments are getting even more rididuclous.

wejo wrote:

I'll answer your questions without revealing too much to give away the athlete.

..............

Why play a guessing game with this?? I seriously don't get it. All you are doing is implicating several possible suspects, without revealing the actual person who had drugs in their room. If you state: "so and so had drugs in their room, and I have a tape to prove it," how on earth could that come back to hurt you? They can't sue you if you have proof? And you never said you knew ABSOLUTELY that they used drugs, just they had drugs in their room. Sort of like having someone having the "murder weapon" at their house.

Wejo, I truly think you are doing more harm than good by playing this strange guessing game. What is it really accomplishing? It's NOT getting the accsued investigated, it's NOT casting fair doubt on athlete who might have cheated, but it IS throwing a blanket of suspicion over several athletes who, all but one, don't deserve that.

Wejo, I often have trouble uderstanding your actions, and this is one more case of that.

name the name wrote:

Wejo, I truly think you are doing more harm than good by playing this strange guessing game. What is it really accomplishing? It's NOT getting the accsued investigated, it's NOT casting fair doubt on athlete who might have cheated, but it IS throwing a blanket of suspicion over several athletes who, all but one, don't deserve that.

Well said.

If EVER there is a time that we as athletes/coaches/organizers could take action against doping, this is one such time. But we can't, because Wejo would rather talk than do.

He has enough desire to have attention and be seen as an insider to talk to the talk, but lacks the balls to walk the walk.

If everyone in USADA and WADA was like that, we'd have an out-of-control doping situation. No, wait! Everyone in USADA and WADA IS like that, and we DO have an out-of-control doping situation! Welcome to being part of the problem, Wejo.

If you pull this thread, you're as bad as any of the people at USADA making a living because there's doping, but not following up tips or getting anything done.

This drug cheat is GEB.

Go to HELL Geb, cheater!

Wejo has said that this person has finished in the top 3 at one of the Major Marathons, but also seemed to indicate that he does not run many of the Majors because that would rank him with the IAAF. So it would be an East African who has placed well, but perhaps only once or twice. That would seem to rule out Tergat and Geb (since his rankings would have like resulted in out of comp testing). This would seem to eliminate a few others as well.

Now, I think it is important to say that syringes on a video are absolutely not evidence. These syringes are labelled EPO??? I'm not saying it isn't true, but did they also come from the ACME DRUG CO.???

Furthermore, I believe sometimes elite African runners live in houses that are arranged by their agents. So runner A could be staying in a house rented by Agent X. There could be a syringe in that house that is used by Runner B, who also stays in that house. Again, I'm not saying it isn't true, but such a video is highly circumstantial.

here are the data, from fall 2002 to fall 2004:

Berlin 2002

Kipkoech, Raymond 02:06:47 KEN

Biwott, Simon 02:06:49 KEN

Kipsos, Vincent 02:06:52 KEN

Chicago 2002

Khannouchi, Khalid 2:05:56 MAR

Njenga, Daniel 2:06:16 KEN

Takaoka, Toshinari 2:06:16 JPN

NYC 2002

Rop, Rodgers 2:08:07 KEN

Cheboiboch, Christopher 2:08:17 KEN

Kipkemboi, Laban 2:08:39 KEN

Boston 2003

Cheruiyot, Robert 2:10:11 KEN

Kimutai, Benjamin K 2:10:34 KEN

Lel, Martin 2:11:11 KEN

London 2003

ABERA, GEZAHEGNE 2:07:56 ETH

BALDINI, STEFANO 2:07:56 ITA

NGOLEPUS, JOSEPH 2:07:57 KEN

Berlin 2003

Tergat, Paul 02:04:55 KEN

Korir, Sammy 02:04:56 KEN

Munji, Titus 02:06:15 KEN

Chicago 2003

Rutto, Evans 2:05:50 KEN

Koech, Paul 2:07:07 KEN

Njenga, Daniel 2:07:41 KEN

NYC 2003

Lel, Martin 2:10:30 KEN

Rop, Rodgers 2:11:11 KEN

Cheboiboch, Christopher 2:11:23 KEN

Boston 2004

Cherigat, Timothy 2:10:37 KEN

Cheboror, Robert 2:11:49 KEN

Lel, Martin 2:13:38 KEN

London 2004

RUTTO, EVANS 2:06:18 KEN

KORIR, SAMMY 2:06:48 KEN

GHARIB, JAOUAD 2:07:02 MAR

Berlin 2004

Limo, Felix 02:06:44 KEN

Riri, Joseph 02:06:49 KEN

Chelanga, Josua 02:07:05 KEN

Chicago 2004

RUTTO, EVANS 2:06:16 KEN

NJENGA, DANIEL 2:07:44 KEN

TAKAOKA, TOSHINARI 2:07:50 JPN

NYC 2004

Ramaala, Hendrik 2:09:28 RSA

Keflezighi, Meb 2:09:53 USA

Cherigat, Timothy 2:10:00 KEN

removing non east afican (e.g. MAR, ITA, JPN, USA, RSA),

we are left with:

Kipkoech

Biwott

Kipsos

Njenga

Rop

Cheboiboch

Kipkemboi

Cheruiyot

Lel

Abera ETH

Ngolepu

Tergat

Korir

Munji

Rutto

Koech

Cherigat

Cheboror

Limo

Riri

all KEN except one ETH.

removing those placed in top-10 in WC 2003 and OG 2004 (surprisingly only one -- Tergat) we got a quite a long list.

repeating the same exercise for women shorter, the list get much shorter.

-boulder for all!

Show us the video weldon and let us decide

training in boulder (not USA) wrote:

repeating the same exercise for women shorter, the list get much shorter.

Catherine Ndereba (KEN) (4x/WC/OG)

Joyce Chepchumba (KEN) (2x/WC)

Margaret Okayo (KEN) (2x)

Elfenesh Alemu (ETH) (1x/WC/OG)

Helen Kimaiyo Kimutai (KEN) (1x)

Esther Kiplagat (KEN) (1x)

Susan Chepkemei (KEN) (1x)

Emily Chepar Kimuria (KEN) (1x)

it is my guess that since he said top three and not "won" this person did not win, so I would eliminate all the winners.

Rop, Lel, Tergat, rutto,Limo,Cheruiyot, Abera

Leaving us with

Kipkoech

Biwott

Kipsos

Njenga

Cheboiboch

Kipkemboi

Ngolepu

Korir

Munji

Koech

Cherigat

Cheboror

Riri

Now my guess is that the it was sent to the USADA because the they raced in a US marathon.

but rally i dont have a clue.

and with the elimination of those who ran two top three's in an 12-18 month span (as they would likely stay on the out of comp list, as opposed to the guy who runs one great one in '03, then nothing until late '04/early '05) then you lose Cherigat, Korir, Njenga, Cheboiboch. i would hope that paul koech is on the out of comp list as well (seeing as good as he is) so then you would be left with:

Kipkoech

Biwott

Kipsos

Kipkemboi

Ngolepu

Munji

Cheboror

Riri

for personal reasons i believe i can narrow it down to 2-3 of those 8.

dude-

ps, not surprised in the slightest that this is going on, shameful as it is.

I read with interest about the action of Wejo, but I cannot agree with some comment coming from somebody not knowing what really happens in Kenya. I live in Kenya during Winter, for coaching many athletes, some of them are among top 5 in the World. Everybody can be guilty, but, please, don't think that in Kenya there are less antidoping control than in US or in Europe. Instead, the opposite situation is the truth. For example, we have in Iten and Eldoret about 10/15 tests out of competition every week. My athletes of Qatar (from Shaheen to Ahmed Hassan, with Nicholas Kemboi, James Kwalia, Mubarak Shami, Musa Obaid, Jamal Bilal Salem and Dahman Bashir) were tested not less than 5 times each one from December to March. My African athletes (Dorcus Inzikuru, David Chemweno, Moses Mosop, Philip Manyim, Rita Jeptoo, Selina Kosgei, Mark Bett, Jeruto Kiptum) and other athletes with me connected but not coached directly by me (Bungei, Yiampoy, Komen, Simotwo, Irene Kwambai, Ines Chenonge, and I'm sure that I forget somebody) had 4-5 tests each one. When the group of WADA (that normally comes with 2 doctors from South Africa) and/or of IAAF antidoping control comes to Iten, I know that everytime they test Isaac Songok, Augustine Choge, Eliu Kipchoge, Benjamin Limo, Benjamin Maiyo and sometime Lorna Kiplagat too. So, everything is possible, but don't think that controls is Kenya are easier than is US and Europe.

I want to remind to letsrun's readers that antidoping OUT of competition is a must only for top 20 in the World, in all the international list. So, if for example an athlete is a normal winner in a lot of races of the US circuit, but never he goes to compete on track or in HM or in Marathon with top results, of sure he never has any control out of competition. Road runners (not HM and Marathon runners in top 20, I repeat) never have controls out of competition. But also if you win one of the top marathon, with a time that is not in top 20 at the end of the season, you don't have any control out of competition. Of course, you can have your normal control AFTER the race, if the race is organized for antidoping control.

This is the procedure, valid for every Country.

So, everybody can be doped, but don't suppose that in Africa can be easy because a lack of controls. This is absolutely not true, and I can guarantee you that, if some Kenyan or Ugandian or Tanzanian is drugged, this happens when they are in our Countries (Europe or US), not in Africa. And, believe me, or I'm so ingenuous that, after a lot of years as coach with top athletes I didn's see anything, or what many people think is completely wrong. And, because I'm sure 100% about my athletes and also other like Songok, Choge, Kipchoge etc, that are the best in the World, I don't see any reason for thinking that athletes weaker than them must be under drugs.

Renato,

I have seen you post many times under this subject and though i agree that you speak some truth to the subject I believe you know much more than you tell. The claim of Africans being as clean as others is believable. I don't think they are tetsed any less excepted for the mediocre african athletes over here who are winning on the US road circuit and are not being tested as much as the the elite americans who finish behind them. We have seen this with the banned fellow at Peachtree who decided to change his name.

I also believe you know much more than you claim. I think you know how prevelent illigal drugs our in this sport, but fail to mension it. Everyone running the European circuit knows this but you put seem to put it aside? I am not totally convinced that you tell the truth. You just seem to hazy on the subject

this web site sucks, i swear..

you told them you had a tape from an un-named friend, of an un-named athlete of "east african " origin...a tape that you arent showing anyone...

god what a joke

In the circuit, many times there are rumors about some group using something that can be doping or not, but in any case is the demonstration that these athletes need mentally some external aid. But, normally, the subjects are athletes coming from East Europe or North Africa. And, in any case, till when I don't have any proof, I suppose that these athletes are clean.

I was in Italy responsible of Decathlon for about 10 years, from 1976 to 1986. So, I can tell that many years ago (before 1988), for all the events connected with the use of strength (where muscular power is the most important quality), really ALL top athletes used steroids of different generations. I always refused to give something not legal to my decathlonists, and several times, discussing with other coaches of jumps, sprint, throws and decathlon, they asked me "when do you decide to give some help to your athletes ?". The best athlete at that time was able to reach about 7.800 points, completely clean.

If you look at the Records of Throws, for example, you can see how NO RECORD WAS BETTERED AFTER 1988, and now winners in top competitions are very far from the results of 20 years ago. If you look at women athletics, you can see incredible differences : try to think what is 21.34 in 200m, 47.60 in 400, 7.52 in long jump, 76.40 in discus and 80.00 in javelin !

But, I repeat, I know what is possible to do with training in long distances. When in US you speak about Marathon, you suppose that athletes need some drug for running 2:12. This is simply ridicolous. I had italians (not kenyans) of very poor talent, but very good continuity and very serious in training, able running under 2:12. Two names : Nicola Ciavarella, 1.60 tall, workers 8 hours per day, two daily sessions only on Saturday and Sunday, PB of 14:35 / 30:02 on track, that ran 2:11:22 during the only period of training with 220 km per week, because could stay home for 3 months after having his first son ; and Fabio Rinaldi, 4:19 in 1500m at 19 years, able running in 2:11:47 three years ago, with a good continuity under 2:13. Now, if you have some runner changing mentality, you can see that, for a big Country like US, to have 10 runners able running under 2:10 is not impossible.

I had athletes, like Maura Viceconte, starting with me their career, that, after running 4:27 in 1500m at 24 years, where able not only to run Marathon in 2:23:47, but also 10000m in 31:05.57 (Italian Record, after Marathon), never using any integrator (not doping : I'm speaking about NORMAL integrators). Ornella Ferrara, during her second year like Marathon runner, won bronze medal in World Championships 1995. Only with training. One example : in Predazzo, 3 weeks before Goteborg (WCh), she ran a special block with (morning) 4k warm-up + 24 km at 3:36 pace, and (afternoon) 4k warm-up + 24 km at 3:33 pace, for a total of 56 km during the day, and 48 km at specific speed ! Do you know when Ornella Ferrara obtained her PB ? In 2004, 9 years after the bronze, and also after 2 babies ! So, tough training never destroyed anybody, but allowed many athletes in becoming top class runners also without very big talent.

And, because I know the talent of many Africans, I can tell that, if and when is possible to find a big talent with the same continuity in training of medium athletes, ALL THE CURRENT RECORDS CAN BE BEATED VERY EASY. This is my idea, and is the reason because I don't believe in any drug. Athletics in the World is not improving. Last year, only 1 athlete was able running under 3:30 in 1500m. How many athletes were able to do it 20 years ago ? Cram, Coe, Maree, Aouita,Morceli. Athletes like Deleze from Switzerland, Gonzalez and Abascal from Spain, Wessinghage and Hudak from Germany, and many other, were able running under 3:32 without big talent.

And, about 800m, do we want to remember that the African Record is yet of 1984 (22 years old) from Sammy Koskei in 1:42.28 ? Coe was able running 1:41.73 in 1981, Cruz 1:41.77 in 1984, Johnny Gray 1:42.60, Cram 1:42.88 and many other. And do we want to look at steeple ? 3 athletes under 8:10 (I consider also Baumgartl, because ran 8:10 falling down) in Olympic of 30 years ago ! And Panetta, clean 100% because never made self-transfusion, winning silver in 10000m and, after few days, destroying all the other in steeple with 8:08 jogging the last 20m during WCh 1987.

At least, I know that somebody takes some drug (I don't know whom, but somebody of sure tries), but I continue to think that this doping is useless for enhancing his performance. If an athlete is very strong mentally, for being in the top of the World with the athletics of today, of sure he doesn't need any external help.

Renato,

We all appreciate your insightful posts. I hope you continue posting here on this sight.

BT