Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I did 12x100m with 60sec rest almost every week. And look how I turned out.
I'm pretty sure that Coe was a fan of 100m runs.
This doesn't need to be a sprint session. I'd say we should be talking 800m race pace or slightly faster. The rests could be 30sec.
Or it can be hills (mild incline) with jogbacks, of course.
What's wrong with 100m repeats? Why "must" it be 200m+ for most distance runners?
Discus.
Aren’t you the poster who wrote recently that you were glad to get back into doing a “limited” amount of running via hill sessions, because you were unable to do anything else?
If you are going to include in your OP the tagline, “And look how I turned out”, then you destroy the premise of your post. As that is not a good advertisement for what you are trying to sell.
Would it be too far of a stretch to speculate that your former running career may have been littered with too much intense work, which, in turn has broken you down and now finds you in your current predicament?
Of course, if I got the wrong person, then you can ignore this post entirely.
Well, I think 800m pace (or maybe even 600m pace) is quite doable off 1min rests - and I would argue that the rests can be just you walking 100m. (ie the turns.) But many variations have been touched upon in this thread - perhaps (likely!) with the 100s at slower pace.
The GOAL is to do some 800m ish pace! (In a multipace training program.) Because some fast (not sprinting!) running benefits us all - even Marathoners.
Sorry - I like SIMPLE!!!
Just because something is doable, it doesn't mean you should do it, or that it makes sense.
You may like it SIMPLE, but I suppose for most runners, a "love for 100m repeats" simply doesn't fit in their training and racing goals. Again -- see your thread on progression -- it didn't fit with middle distance runner GDS. She required progression to get herself back to racing shape.
Sorry for the repetitive questions (though this thread is about repeats, isn't it?), but for me to "love 100m repeats", I would have to make sense of it within personal training and racing goals.
Doing "some 800m-ish pace" is not usually a goal in and of itself, but a means to some unstated goal. What do you hope to achieve by doing these 12x100m at 800m-ish pace with 1-min/100m walking recovery as a weekly staple, that would be under-developed without them? This might be a useful stepping stone for the 800m/miler, but what are the suggested benefits you refer to for Marathoners?
An organized approach to training attempts to answer these questions within some guiding framework. Which framework is best is the stuff that used to be the subject of legendary threads.
I like it SIMPLE too. After some extensive inquiry into various training methods, and their rationale, I found all these physiological ways of describing optimal paces and thresholds, and what happens in cells, too complex for practical purposes (content to simply adapt paces from lookup tables based on personal strengths). I think of training in simple terms like RECOVERY, ENDURANCE, STAMINA, and SPEED. I think marathon runners require plenty of ENDURANCE and STAMINA, but will not benefit so much from 800m SPEED. The 3-hour marathon runner needs to maintain 3m25s pace per 800m, repeated 52.75x without any in-between recovery. What would be the benefit of doing 12x100m at say 2m20s pace per 800m (68% by time) with 1-minute/100m walking recovery for this runner's marathon fitness and times?
but again, you're not likely going even that fast on just 30 seconds rest. I can do it on 60 seconds, but not 30. World of difference.
What is the point of it? You could do 100 reps but when you race, as soon as you're past 100m nothing will be like those reps were. You have to run entirely differently, at no point in the race do you get a 30 or 60 second break.
But there is a point to working top speed. It will naturally speed up all your slower paces.
Sorry Dude, but 800m pace is NOT sprinting.
And by the argument you make, 400m reps would also be useless, because as soon as you are past 400m in a race....
400m reps are useful because the condition you're in during most of them matches the condition during much a race.
100m reps don't. As I already mentioned, 20-30m of each one is just getting up to speed. The rest only matches part of the first 100m of a race, at best, and not the later reps.
You let slip in another thread that your 1500m pr was just under 4 flat. That's why your 800m isn't a sprint. The guys going out in 50-52 are sprinting.
So many runners make the mistake of not pushing their top speed as high as possible. They think they can endurance or max vo2 their way to amazing performance. It doesn't work like that with 800, you have to be fast, not just strong. You think the 1:50 800 guys have stronger hearts, more mitochondria, higher max vo2? No, they can sprint, that's all.
Well, I think 800m pace (or maybe even 600m pace) is quite doable off 1min rests - and I would argue that the rests can be just you walking 100m. (ie the turns.) But many variations have been touched upon in this thread - perhaps (likely!) with the 100s at slower pace.
The GOAL is to do some 800m ish pace! (In a multipace training program.) Because some fast (not sprinting!) running benefits us all - even Marathoners.
Sorry - I like SIMPLE!!!
Just because something is doable, it doesn't mean you should do it, or that it makes sense.
You may like it SIMPLE, but I suppose for most runners, a "love for 100m repeats" simply doesn't fit in their training and racing goals. Again -- see your thread on progression -- it didn't fit with middle distance runner GDS. She required progression to get herself back to racing shape.
Sorry for the repetitive questions (though this thread is about repeats, isn't it?), but for me to "love 100m repeats", I would have to make sense of it within personal training and racing goals.
Doing "some 800m-ish pace" is not usually a goal in and of itself, but a means to some unstated goal. What do you hope to achieve by doing these 12x100m at 800m-ish pace with 1-min/100m walking recovery as a weekly staple, that would be under-developed without them? This might be a useful stepping stone for the 800m/miler, but what are the suggested benefits you refer to for Marathoners?
An organized approach to training attempts to answer these questions within some guiding framework. Which framework is best is the stuff that used to be the subject of legendary threads.
I like it SIMPLE too. After some extensive inquiry into various training methods, and their rationale, I found all these physiological ways of describing optimal paces and thresholds, and what happens in cells, too complex for practical purposes (content to simply adapt paces from lookup tables based on personal strengths). I think of training in simple terms like RECOVERY, ENDURANCE, STAMINA, and SPEED. I think marathon runners require plenty of ENDURANCE and STAMINA, but will not benefit so much from 800m SPEED. The 3-hour marathon runner needs to maintain 3m25s pace per 800m, repeated 52.75x without any in-between recovery. What would be the benefit of doing 12x100m at say 2m20s pace per 800m (68% by time) with 1-minute/100m walking recovery for this runner's marathon fitness and times?
I stopped reading after your first paragraph, which completely twists my words.
And by the argument you make, 400m reps would also be useless, because as soon as you are past 400m in a race....
400m reps are useful because the condition you're in during most of them matches the condition during much a race.
100m reps don't. As I already mentioned, 20-30m of each one is just getting up to speed. The rest only matches part of the first 100m of a race, at best, and not the later reps.
You let slip in another thread that your 1500m pr was just under 4 flat. That's why your 800m isn't a sprint. The guys going out in 50-52 are sprinting.
So many runners make the mistake of not pushing their top speed as high as possible. They think they can endurance or max vo2 their way to amazing performance. It doesn't work like that with 800, you have to be fast, not just strong. You think the 1:50 800 guys have stronger hearts, more mitochondria, higher max vo2? No, they can sprint, that's all.
And they can "sprint" because...???
Because they do things like 10x100m in training often?
Are we having a heated agreement?
The guys going out in 50-52 can likely run 400m in 46-48. THAT "touches" sprint pace for them.
Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I did 12x100m with 60sec rest almost every week. And look how I turned out.
I'm pretty sure that Coe was a fan of 100m runs.
This doesn't need to be a sprint session. I'd say we should be talking 800m race pace or slightly faster. The rests could be 30sec.
Or it can be hills (mild incline) with jogbacks, of course.
What's wrong with 100m repeats? Why "must" it be 200m+ for most distance runners?
Discus.
Aren’t you the poster who wrote recently that you were glad to get back into doing a “limited” amount of running via hill sessions, because you were unable to do anything else?
If you are going to include in your OP the tagline, “And look how I turned out”, then you destroy the premise of your post. As that is not a good advertisement for what you are trying to sell.
Would it be too far of a stretch to speculate that your former running career may have been littered with too much intense work, which, in turn has broken you down and now finds you in your current predicament?
Of course, if I got the wrong person, then you can ignore this post entirely.
Please call me when you are 63 and let me know:
a) How your running is, and
b) What your PR for the 400m swim is.
Thanks.
(1-800-BITEMEE.)
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
But aren't "strides" generally a lot less formal than "12x100m at half second faster than 800m race pace with 45sec recovery"? (On the track, in spikes.)
If they are really all out, then 2mins rest is about right. Done in final 2 weeks of championship season. As a cosch I can tell you that when you start implementing speedwork, it's like juggling nitro glycerin.
If they are really "all out" then 2:00 is NOT "right." Not even close.
You are just showing that you don't know what truly all out sprinting actually is.
But aren't "strides" generally a lot less formal than "12x100m at half second faster than 800m race pace with 45sec recovery"? (On the track, in spikes.)
Why don't you just say 400m pace?
Distance runners...
Is your 400 pace just half sec per 100 faster than your 800 pace?
Skuj, you should really consider spending 3 months training to run a 60. I think it would be worth it. It would be a huge accomplishment for the 1962 age group.
For whatever reason, sprinting as gotten easier as I've aged and LD has gotten harder.
Aren’t you the poster who wrote recently that you were glad to get back into doing a “limited” amount of running via hill sessions, because you were unable to do anything else?
If you are going to include in your OP the tagline, “And look how I turned out”, then you destroy the premise of your post. As that is not a good advertisement for what you are trying to sell.
Would it be too far of a stretch to speculate that your former running career may have been littered with too much intense work, which, in turn has broken you down and now finds you in your current predicament?
Of course, if I got the wrong person, then you can ignore this post entirely.
Please call me when you are 63 and let me know:
a) How your running is, and
b) What your PR for the 400m swim is.
Thanks.
(1-800-BITEMEE.)
I’m a few months off 59…so close enough. Im still running…but not like I used to…but I’m managing more than a few hill reps. Age catches up to us all…so do training mistakes.
I actually wasn’t being critical or making fun of you. It was a legitimate question. As someone who probably did too much intensity when younger, and paid the price…I was just wondering if you had considered that similar mistakes might have been made in your past. Clearly not it seems…
When I was coaching HS I’d have my 800m guys do a 20x100m workout at around 800m pace (wasn’t too particular about actually timing them to any fractions of a second) with 30s-45s rest maybe once or twice a year, in trainers, and I’d sometimes have them immediately throw on trainers and do 10x100 on the infield after a 200-500m race at a lowkey dual or Tri meet if that was their only event. Generally had pretty good success. Wouldn’t consider it a staple workout, but I thought it was a nice change of pace to throw in there from time to time.
