Does threshold not work for certain types of runners?

Yeah, you've overcooked it. That ain't threshold.

I've been doing NSA for a couple of months now myself and just ran a new 10k PB, just under 33 mins.

I do the 1k repeats at 15k-HM Pace; the 2k repeats at 3-5 secs/km slower than HM pace and the 10 minute repeats at basically Marathon pace.

I've read the whole thread, and I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest that you run the paces you've mentioned here.

Put your ego aside and do it properly.

Yup.

In one of the early posts on Strava it was summed up:

3k Reps: 25-30k pace

2k Reps: HM-25k pace

Mile Reps: Slightly slower than 10mi pace

1k Reps: No faster than 15k pace

Try running one threshold interval e.g 8-12 x 1000m @ around half marathon pace and another workout maxVO2 interrval e.g 12-20 x 400m @ 5 k pace almost every week.

I have now during 10 years coached several hundreds of runners at all levels and so far no one of them didn't respond on threshold training. Coach J.S 🇸🇪🤠🇸🇪

Sirpoc was never doing sub threshold. The paces he laid out early on in that thread are not sub threshold, far from it.

How about 6x4 minute hill repeats?

Yup, none of these paces are sub threshold. Some are vdot threshold pace, 400s 10k pace.

25x400 is probably around 98-99% of Tinman's CV.
10x1k is around 12-15k pace.
5x2k is around HM pace.
6x1600 right around 10 mile pace.

He’s literally measuring his lactate to confirm that his paces are below threshold.

That aside, I’ve tried this approach for two different blocks, I’m a FT type and I struggled. The first time I was regularly exhausted from the intervals and eventually had to pull the plug. I was only doing 2 x intervals / week (I can’t handle three interval sessions per week anymore) and used a lactate meter to get my paces right.

The second time I slowed the paces down substantially (like 15s/km) but didn’t improve at all, presumably because the sessions weren’t producing sufficient TSS. I find these types of workouts really tough which seems to be different from how a lot of people experience them. I was primarily a 1500m guy who was better at the 800 than the 5000.

There is one thing about the NSA, I don’t think it would get me injured.

i wonder if, for FT types, it would work for base building, if adding in faster strides?

If the runner have trouble to run the threshold reps at longer reps it's a good way to start with shorter reps at same threshold pace and just improve over time and atlast be able to keep same threshold pace over longer reps. 🇸🇪🤠🇸🇪

The reps for that longer time won't give the needed target effort to substitut for the 12-20 x 400m at 5 k pace. Better then to sometimes run 2 sets of 6-10 x 200m fast reps.🇸🇪🤠🇸🇪

.....2 sets of.6-10 x 200m fast hillreps I ment. 😬🖐🇸🇪

Whats the point tho. Just say youve done double threshold?

FT types will get better results from a more traditional approach. So just do the traditional approach

Very much a fast twitch runner here, 200-400 speed when I was younger. Distance is just pathetic.

Even in my late 40s can crack a good 200.

On-board the sirpoc or nsm method. Probably took me a couple of weeks, then I've been hitting the paces subscribed almost bang in the middle. Up until then, felt like my speed don't wanna play sub t. Improved a lot. Just wanted really to run a respectable i.e sub 20 5k. Ran 19:22 over the holiday. Worked wonders for me. Give it patience.

Even with my raw speed I was digging big 400s, 12-16 even of them. No cigar. That extra session will do the trick in my opinion. You just gotta reel the other two in to be able to manage it. After about 7-8 weeks I felt like it was working. Big PBs came after around 3-4 months. For me I can see maybe sub 19. Might not sound like much for y'all but for me this was probably out of the question as a dream a year ago.

We are talking about NSA, not double threshold.

The 400s must be well under 3 mins each? What are the other two ST sessions?

Is everything else equal with your before and after? Ie similar overall volume?

Im perhaps more middle distance with my times dropping off after 10k and a pitiful marathon. Ive always found tempos make me feel flat and too much like just racing slowly.

Maybe ill come back to this in winter tho and give it a whirl for a few months see what happens

In theory, threshold (and pyramidal intensity distribution) may be more beneficial to a runner with a lot of type IIa muscle fibers (duration of activation builds mitochondria volume density) and a stroke volume that plateaus relative to VO2. (Wall stretching and pressure may produce cardiac remodeling.)

Someone with mostly type I fibers and a stroke volume continuously increasing with VO2 may find polarized training to be more effective.

Also, the longer the distance the more a pyramidal approach seems to work, yet Jakob is an exception to that, if we can believe what he says.