High heart rate on easy runs despite my pbs

Is it warm and humid in the summers where you are at? Heat affects my heartrate by 20+ bpm

Ok. You’ve probably never met 99.99% of elite runners. Many use HR in their training.

Hi Mike, maybe i can clear things or help you as i am pretty much the same as you (age, pbs, hr). I was wondering the same thing because i also experienced this. My easy Zone according to 5k pb should be 4.30-4:00/km but in reality i often had to go 5-5:15 to feel truely easy. Hr ~130 is pretty much impossible unless i go 5:30 or slower. At 4:40 im often at 150-155 (max is 203). I took a little bit of a deep dive into my training, normal day, eating, talked to some experienced coaches and this is what found:

-some people (like us) rely heavily on their VO2 and/or speed reserve to generate performance or the current LT, while others generate it via big aerobic base and high easy pace
I myself didnt realise this until a coach told me. I thought of myself as a full on endurance type for years, despite is was a decent longjumper as a kid and my best running distances being 800/1000m...
Some other indicators could be that you also dont like long tempos, continuous slow runs and love intervals paced at vo2 or faster. Eg i get easily fatigued at least more than i should when runnnig longer than 45 steady, my hr creeps up relatively fast between 150-160 for the pace. Some days its almost Z1 according to pace while hr is almost entering Z3... even when training at LT2 my hr goes to 180-185 quickly. When you look at the pace it seems slow, but between 180 and max there is a surprisingly huge reserve in pace i can generate. Maybe this is true for you also?
Also do your performances get slower with the distance going up? i suspect so. For true endurance types all this is the opposite- they have big reserve in the low end hr zones with fast basic paces up until LT and then hit the rev limiter relative quickly.

-second i found that i have very unregular lifestyle, unregular bedtimes, training times, often switching days, doing other random activities like hikes on the side, eating whatever. This effects hr also. When i was in training camp i had the same day always and my hr was much more predictable, still on the higher side but not 138 one day and 155 the next...
Alcohol is a big one... 1-2 beer -> +10bpm next day for me...

-higher miles and running every day also affected my hr. I think i recover but was not for whatever reason. Test this, for a week run easy pace but only every 2nd day and look at the hr. When i did this it dropped and matched my pace, meaning i was not recovered before... which brings me to point 1 again and that i have to run exceptionally slow every day to be recovered ( i run easy now with people almost 5min slower in the 5k than me).

-not eating enough the day before, makes also almost 10bpm plus for me...

Hope this helps a bit. My personal opinion is, i suspect you under point 1 as a more speed oriented guy. Maybe your training is also more focused on intensity and therfore the lower hr zones dont match the paces.

Thank you for your perspective! Well yes i agree with you when you say athletes like us rely on vo2 and LT for performing instead of the aerobic side. The other factors you told me i can say to you: i've never drinked in my entire life, never smoked, and always sleep and get up at the same time! I also do long runs (1 or 2 per month) like 20km slow, and my threshold workouts are 4x2km(1' jog) or 3x10mins (2' jog), for vo2 i keep it simple, 4x4' at 5k pace or 6x1k at 5k pace, and then i get some fast reps at mile pace and 3k pace.. In all of this workouts heart rate stays in the same zone as pace (z4 and z5) but cannot stay down on easy runs, always go straight up to zone 3 after like 5 minutes of run

My only problem and i think thats what preventing to improve more is the heart rate.. because i've started running like 3 years ago and went from 17min at 5k to 15:19 (im following jack daniels vdot calculator) and 4:20 ITS REALLY NOT my easy pace like it shows..

I thought for sure this would have derailed into a 3 page debate on "the jab". Way to stay on topic LetsRun!

Maybe you’re a malmo whisperer and can translate what he actually wrote as such, but nowhere did he ask for an explanation of his concern. In fact, the OP’s concern is obvious from his context and question, so malmo was quite clearly questioning why one would bother to consider HR generally. You are giving malmo too much credit for helpful intent. IMHO anyway

I’m sub 4 mi, sub 14 5k, sub 8 3k, ran decent cross times. Hr in the 160-170 range on maintenance runs (6-7min pace). I have a cup of coffee or tea before most runs which bumps me up 5-10bpm. Gives me no issues, and the less I think about it, the better I do.

I second the 200+ HR on workouts, especially over the summer.

Wait a minute, as a 15:15 5k, you originally said you were running 8min/mile pace. Now you are saying you are following Daniels easy pace (which is significantly faster than 8min/mile.)

Don’t worry about Daniels’ easy pace. Instead, try keeping you Heart Rate below 75% max on your easy runs. Take a walk break to keep it down, if necessary. You may find out you can get more training volume in, and recover better, if you do that.

This. If you feel good, who cares if you have a 'high' hr?

I am 71, I still go over 170. I used to be close to 200 when I was an athlete.

If you are having symptoms stress at that level, then see a cardiologist. If not, enjoy that you have a healthy productive motor.

No, you're just acting like an azz seeking conflict. The OP answered his own question in that first post.

"i have problems with iron and ferritin but supplementing for 4 months now and im not tired or having breathing issues, just the bpm..Its frustrating that i need to run that slow to cover miles.."

There is nothing wrong with him except his preconceived idea that his heart-rate data should be something that it isn't. He needs to train -- not play games. Paralysis through analysis.

The OP is looking for the answers that aren't there. We are all experiment of one. If his easy pace gives him a 155HR then that's what it is. No need to ask total strangers on the interwebs what's wrong. Nothing wrong. "Don't waste good time." - John Ngugi.

Twenty years ago a friend invited me to ride a stationary bike at a health club with him. Fine. We rode the same bike. He had been busy "training" all winter. I hadn't worked out in years. I had set the load on the bike at a higher lever, my RPMs were higher, yet my heart-rate was much lower, 145. I said this feels like tempo run pace. "How do you know?" he said with a bewildered look. I said, "Jim, after 40 years you would think I would have figured this out by now?"

Don't waste good time. If it feels right then it is right.

Look at all of these ridiculous posts on this thread, all of them mind-mush. It didn't take HRE but a second to discern the question, the lack of a problem, and the answer.

Athletes that at least partially use HR data in their training: Jakob, Nordas, the OAC Europe guys, Hobbs, Fisher.

garmin flaw. i’ve found the HR and cadence tracker gets confused. reset watch. i’ve since just turned off HR as it becomes to unpredictable. i’m

I think thats kinda common tbh to have a HR that just doesn't go down. Not everyone's HR is the same, what matters is you FEEL recovered and can perform well.

I had a similar issue in HS running 4:2x in the mile 9:3x in the 3200, run 8 min pace easy days my HR wouldn't go under 150 bpm. Eventually got to college, slammed plenty easy sessions at 6:30 pace, still 150 mf bpm.

26 yo, post collegiate PRs of 15:02, 4:22, 2:37 marathon. My easy runs (I will stop at like 6 miles to take it) are around 160bpm ~6:30 pace.

HR is overrated. Mine is lower in the summer since I carry high stress as a teacher and coach where I go, go, go all day. Garmin watch HR is spotty, but I plateaued in my first marathon at 183bpm.

Before you go and drop a bag on a new strap or change all your training so you can run 9 minute pace for 135bpm, ask yourself these questions:

1. Do you feel good on runs? As in, can you have conversations, run up hills without huffing and puffing and finish runs not feeling sauced?

2. Do you want to focus on HR?

3. Are you stagnating on goals?

4. Why are you focusing on HR?

I've been running for almost 15 years now and have not once focused on HR other than taking it out of curiosity asking myself the same questions you are. As a coach, I have kids who have naturally higher and naturally lower HRs. HRV and resting rates seem to me a bit of a fad right now so companies can sell more crap if I'm honest. Listen to your body and pull back when you need to

I like to use HR data as more of a confirmation of my Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). Of course you need an accurate measurement device (which it sounds like OP has).

Then after a few weeks/months of data I generally know what true "easy" pace is supposed to feel like and no longer lie to myself running when running too quickly on easy runs that it felt easy.

Then as you get fitter you can reassess your zones and bump up your pace on easy runs. It's exciting to see your pace increase as your HR/RPE remains the same.

As far as what affects it - hilly routes, heat, too much caffeine, dehydration, alcohol, stress, sleep. Try to keep a consistent routine and you can try to pinpoint what keeps you HR more in the zone you want to be in.

Is it really hot when you're doing these runs?

Are you performing them dehydrated?

It could just be a weird quirk of your physiology, that your HR is high on easy runs (but you're still well below LT1).

The thing that I'd worry about is the perceived effort. If it feels harder than an easy run should, when you're running much slower than you'd estimate a 15 low 5k guy should run, then maybe there is something going on. Perhaps you should go and get a blood test.

If your Marathon PR is 2:37, then 6:30/mile is not your easy pace. You're kidding yourself there.

Also, if your HR is high because you're stressed, then that HR data isn't just useless. It's actually quite valuable information, letting you know that you may be on the verge of overtraining.

The problem I see with HR training is people starting with incorrect data. However, if you've been collecting it for long enough, and you're not a complete idiot, then it's quite a valuable metric that helps you lock into the right intensity.

Most runners need to be held back. They always want every workout to be faster and faster. If there's an objective measurement that keeps people a little more in touch with reality, rather than just fudging the numbers, then it'll give them a tremendous advantage when it comes to setting realistic goals and executing a successful race day strategy.