I think that the weekly hill workout that is in the base week schedule for Jakob I, involves heavy breathing and high heart rate. So it is 'VO2 max'.
Not really. The rests are too long. It is closer to a Daniel’s rep workout but it isn’t an exact match. Not quite hard enough for vo2, a bit too hard for Rep
Outside of the base phase you will see more workouts that line up with tradition vo2. For example supposed Jacob ran 6x800 before his 2m WR and one of he told programs had 8x1k at 5k pace.
we just tend to see a lot more base weeks and last couple weeks if prep work weeks and tend to miss out on the race specific phase in between.
Reading Bakken, the hills are quite fast up and then jog back. No 'rest'. And blood lactate is pretty high. Looks like it would get the heart and lungs working hard. Mine do when I do it. VO2 max.
These guys (INSCYD) say a variety of paces faster than threshold can get you to VO2 max, whereas Daniels (just looked at his new edition with Sara Hall on the cover) says you have to run at VO2 max pace or faster to get to VO2 max. I have had good results with INSCYD:
If you run faster than threshold, you will reach max (or very near max) HR eventually, even if you're not running at a true vVO2 max. For example, CV pace will get you to Max HR, it just might take 30 minutes.
IMO, this is what makes CV such an effective pace. It's above threshold, so you get some work processing / tolerating lactate, but no so far above thrshold that if you keep the work bouts to 3-4 min that the lactate levels will get very high. And, because it's not far above threshold, you can still do a fairly large volume and be able to absorb the training and be recovered in one day.
These guys (INSCYD) say a variety of paces faster than threshold can get you to VO2 max, whereas Daniels (just looked at his new edition with Sara Hall on the cover) says you have to run at VO2 max pace or faster to get to VO2 max. I have had good results with INSCYD:
If you run faster than threshold, you will reach max (or very near max) HR eventually, even if you're not running at a true vVO2 max. For example, CV pace will get you to Max HR, it just might take 30 minutes.
IMO, this is what makes CV such an effective pace. It's above threshold, so you get some work processing / tolerating lactate, but no so far above thrshold that if you keep the work bouts to 3-4 min that the lactate levels will get very high. And, because it's not far above threshold, you can still do a fairly large volume and be able to absorb the training and be recovered in one day.
It’s splitting hairs. At the pro level, the pace difference between 30min and 1 hr is about 12 sec. So, it’s a matter of doing a little more volume at a slightly slower pace or a little less volume at a slightly faster pace.
In lifting it’s the difference between sets of 12 reps or 15 reps with a little less weight.
Yes. That is a real VO2 max workout. Not those mickey mouse 400's that people do, with standing around in between. But without races, I'd do a 2000, 1600, 1200, and 800 with 800m jog recoveries in between.
Yeah well don't you think that depends on the athlete in question and where they are in their season? You can't just start a HS freshmen out doing repeat 1200s.
You gotta start somewhere, so yeah.. maybe someone is doing 400m reps but that's so later in the season they can eventually advance on to 1ks.
Context is important here is all I'm saying
It's about adaptations produced from VO2 max or HIT sessions. If you want to produce cardiac remodeling and increase mitochondria respiration, then doing 400's with inactive recovery is not a good way to do this, looking at the HR kinetics, VO2 kinetics, and science papers on those adaptations.
I agree with your training priorities for the majority of 5k and up athletes. I would place equal emphasis on VO2 and Threshold for anyone focusing on 1500m/3k and equal emphasis on VO2 and tolerance for the 800/1500 athlete.
I disagree with your "more races instead of VO2max" statement. While races are important for all the reasons you listed, racing more frequently is very taxing on the body and with no preparation at that intensity (vVO2) it will be run at a detriment to performance. By desiring workouts intelligently you can achieve the benefit from VO2 in a controlled environment to achieve the proper amount of bang for your buck.
I'm amazed at how the running community has lost sight of a basic training principle of SPECIFICITY. You need to prepare for the intensity and stress of a race in training. Racing without specific preparation is shot in the dark.
I sometimes wonder if SPECIFICITY and "Zone Training" are at odds with each other.
I loved 3x1600m because it was SPECIFIC for my beloved 5000m. But some might say "That's VO2 max." (Or close to it.)
Which came first? Trying to be SPECIFIC or trying to do one of the zones perfectly?
Trying to be specific came first. A lot of coaches figure things out before physiologists do by trial/error. Usually exercise science swoops in later to explain WHY certain things are good and how to maximize that variable, which is something intuitive coaches knew all along.
Not really. The rests are too long. It is closer to a Daniel’s rep workout but it isn’t an exact match. Not quite hard enough for vo2, a bit too hard for Rep
Outside of the base phase you will see more workouts that line up with tradition vo2. For example supposed Jacob ran 6x800 before his 2m WR and one of he told programs had 8x1k at 5k pace.
we just tend to see a lot more base weeks and last couple weeks if prep work weeks and tend to miss out on the race specific phase in between.
Reading Bakken, the hills are quite fast up and then jog back. No 'rest'. And blood lactate is pretty high. Looks like it would get the heart and lungs working hard. Mine do when I do it. VO2 max.
Jogging is rest. And at about 1:2 it is pretty long. It is stretching to call it a vo2max workout. If someone is doing 8x400@1500m pace with 90s rest are you calling it a vo2max cause your heart rate gets up and you feel some lactate? I sure don’t.