Wrong. No one who peaked at 20 and didn't win Olympic gold in his event is the best of all time. He was the best "might have been" I have seen.
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87
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xzcvzcxv wrote:
Okay. No gold medals, only one total medal, a short career, and his times have all been destroyed for a long time.
On the other hand, he ran multiple world records in the mile, 1500m, and 800m on very slow tracks with no drafting or pacing in most of them, and showed the ability under modern conditions to run still-standing world records. He also was the best closer of all time, running 36s on dirt for the last 300m of a 3:38 1500m in 1967.
He didn't close 36 for the last 300. That was not a definitive measure and has been argued from analysis of the race that it is an exaggeration, that it was closer to 38.
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At 7500 feet wrote:
JackmanJones wrote:
He’s not even the best of his era. That’s Kip Keino.
He lost only one race to Keino.
Two. Both at the Olympics, where it matters most.
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Jed Clampett wrote:
Jim Ryun set the NCAA 800 meter record in 1966. That's 58 years ago (2025 - 1966 = 59). He was 19 years old!
If I recall...mary decker held every American record from 800m to 10000m at the same time. And set 17 world records. She held every WORLD record from 800m to 10000 meters at the same time!!!!I would say Ryan is not in her league at all, if we are talking any gender. Not even the conversation.
Can you I imagine hoppel or Fischer holding world records at 800-10000.
Maybe she was doping way back then i dont know, but so was her competition and she held all the records. So clearly the goat among goats.
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Bekele is the best of all time. Every single person you say this about needs an *if clean* though.
Best 5k, best 10k, second best marathon while out of his prime, xc champ, great championship runner. I mean what else can you want? Biggest stages, time trials, mix of distances, long career.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.111 -
Armstronglivs wrote:
xzcvzcxv wrote:
Okay. No gold medals, only one total medal, a short career, and his times have all been destroyed for a long time.
On the other hand, he ran multiple world records in the mile, 1500m, and 800m on very slow tracks with no drafting or pacing in most of them, and showed the ability under modern conditions to run still-standing world records. He also was the best closer of all time, running 36s on dirt for the last 300m of a 3:38 1500m in 1967.
He didn't close 36 for the last 300. That was not a definitive measure and has been argued from analysis of the race that it is an exaggeration, that it was closer to 38.
Dude as you well know none other than vento^ himself performed indepth analysis of DUESSELDORF '67 finding that Jimbos close was 36.4-36.8. Thats still the fastest in history for any 1500 run within 2% of the existing WR (3:33.1/3:38 in that case).
Cram and J-L Gonzalez did close the 87 Euro Cup 15 in 49.7/9 but the 3:45 final was far outside the 3:29WR.
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Jed Clampett wrote:
Jim Ryun set the NCAA 800 meter record in 1966. That's 58 years ago (2025 - 1966 = 59). He was 19 years old!
The best!
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I don't care who was the greatest, whatever that may mean, but Jim Ryun was the greatest, most inspiring story ever lived in middle distance running. His raw, amateur talent, the naivete of his parents, his humble personality and his awkward beginnings in other sports - those things are all the substance of the most fascinating story. Those things are all the substance of a true legend.
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JackmanJones wrote:
At 7500 feet wrote:
He lost only one race to Keino.
Two. Both at the Olympics, where it matters most.
One. Ryun got knocked down in the Q at Munich.
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You're not wrong
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OracleofDelphi wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
He didn't close 36 for the last 300. That was not a definitive measure and has been argued from analysis of the race that it is an exaggeration, that it was closer to 38.
Dude as you well know
He doesn't know.
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At 7500 feet wrote:
JackmanJones wrote:
He’s not even the best of his era. That’s Kip Keino.
He lost only one race to Keino.
i honestly think kip keino's race in mexico city might be the greatest middle distance performance of all time. to run 3:34 at 7300' altitude in 1968 is completely absurd. there was nothing jim could do, he ran a great race too.
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You are wrong.
The 1500 doesn't qualify as a distance event.
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Ryun definitely didn't bomb in Mexico City. Despite losing time due to mono and the IOC barring non-altitude athletes from training at altitude more than a month in 1968, he ran among the best ever 1500m times at altitude ever for a non-altitude athlete (3:37). He crushed Kip Keino at sea level multiple times before that and beat him so badly in one of those races in the last 300m that the commentator says that Keino had given up the idea of running the 1500m in 1968. No other non-altitude athletes medaled at 1500m and up in 1968.
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malmo wrote:
Jed Clampett wrote:
The greatest of all time? Depends how you define it. James Ronald Ryun had unmatched potential—he peaked at just 21 before injuries and overtraining cut his career short. Imagine what could've been!"
Where do you get the idea he was "overtraining" or his career was "cut short"? There was no such thing as "pro" and nowhere to go. He set WRs at 880, 1500m and mile. In another era he wold have advanced to the Munich 1500 final.
Just look at videos of him run. He was Secretariat. He was a tremendous machine.
right , look at him run , there is nothing like id
Dusseldorf on youtube last 300
that is not distance running
coe and ryan are the two
coe running 400 relay, there is nothing like that either
this new kenyan 141 and who knows maybe 326... might be in the same league
snell wasn't in that league with 400m...
so you have 2 guys in goat
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Yomif Kejelcha, great range
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Might have been on a cinder track
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JackmanJones wrote:
At 7500 feet wrote:
He lost only one race to Keino.
Two. Both at the Olympics, where it matters most.
He fell at Munich. It was also in a qf, where the athletes aren't racing to win but to qualify. The only time Keino genuinely beat Ryun was at Mexico, which was at altitude.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.24 -
bigmig19 wrote:
Jed Clampett wrote:
Jim Ryun set the NCAA 800 meter record in 1966. That's 58 years ago (2025 - 1966 = 59). He was 19 years old!
If I recall...mary decker held every American record from 800m to 10000m at the same time. And set 17 world records. She held every WORLD record from 800m to 10000 meters at the same time!!!!I would say Ryan is not in her league at all, if we are talking any gender. Not even the conversation.
Can you I imagine hoppel or Fischer holding world records at 800-10000.
Maybe she was doping way back then i dont know, but so was her competition and she held all the records. So clearly the goat among goats.
Ryun, not "Ryan".
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OracleofDelphi wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
He didn't close 36 for the last 300. That was not a definitive measure and has been argued from analysis of the race that it is an exaggeration, that it was closer to 38.
Dude as you well know none other than vento^ himself performed indepth analysis of DUESSELDORF '67 finding that Jimbos close was 36.4-36.8. Thats still the fastest in history for any 1500 run within 2% of the existing WR (3:33.1/3:38 in that case).
Cram and J-L Gonzalez did close the 87 Euro Cup 15 in 49.7/9 but the 3:45 final was far outside the 3:29WR.
If it came from Ventolin you have to take at least 2 seconds off. Ryun's last 300m is an estimated time, as there wasn't an official figure for that split. Those who have timed it off video say it isn't near 36 but about 38.
I was more impressed by his finish when he destroyed the 1500 wr in the '67 Colosseum Relays. He put about 4 seconds between himself and Keino in the final 250m. Massive kick.
Snell was comparable at Tokyo '64 and also when he blew away the best American milers (Beattie, Grelle and Weisegger) at Modesto '63. Left both fields standing.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.32
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