It's called confirmation bias. That's all you've got.
On the accomplishments of high school runners discussed here . . . “all you’ve got” is . . . nothing. No evidence of PEDs . . . zero. Just your asinine, uniformed, biased speculation backed by nothing. Your butt hurt biased comments add nothing . . . go away.
So you are either in wilful denial of the presence of peds in the sport (and in schools, as WADA says) or simple ignorance.
Credit Tuohy for paving the way for the next generation.
Don’t underestimate Cole Hocker’s impact. He was a middle school phenom, phenomenal at high school level, Foot Locker Champion, closed in 57 at State, one year at Oregon, takes down Centro, wins Olympic Gold and has the best content on YouTube with Cooper and SOVA.
This is clearly the most obvious explanation, and the rest is grasping at straws. We know that the best high school sprinters dope because they have been caught. (The PEDS they use are easier to detect). The issue in high school distance running is whether the incentives have now caught up so that doping makes financial sense. I would say it has. The idea that new training methods have been discovered is smoke and mirrors.
No new training methods? That’s not true, one training method that’s not new is lactate testing, most hs kids did not do that but in last 4 or 5 years more and more are. Then there is the stryd power meter which if used properly replaces lactate testing all the time and is very effective. I’ve asked before on these threads what is considered a 3200 time or 5k time for hs boys where in some of your heads are going oh well he’s using ped’s? And no one ever answers because at end of day your all just assuming.
Training methods are now refinements. They haven't revolutionised the sport in over half a century. As certain great athletes have said - training isn't rocket science; it is hard work. Gains may also come from technological improvements - shoes and tracks, and of course doping. All top athletes know this.
Credit Tuohy for paving the way for the next generation.
Don’t underestimate Cole Hocker’s impact. He was a middle school phenom, phenomenal at high school level, Foot Locker Champion, closed in 57 at State, one year at Oregon, takes down Centro, wins Olympic Gold and has the best content on YouTube with Cooper and SOVA.
So Centro being an Olympic champion well before him didn't have that impact?
Don’t underestimate Cole Hocker’s impact. He was a middle school phenom, phenomenal at high school level, Foot Locker Champion, closed in 57 at State, one year at Oregon, takes down Centro, wins Olympic Gold and has the best content on YouTube with Cooper and SOVA.
So Centro being an Olympic champion well before him didn't have that impact?
Mr Armstrong I've had the privilege of working with some remarkable young athletes. One 11-year-old completed a 5k parkrun in an impressive 16:47. A 13-year-old girl, training just twice a week, ran 2:12 for 800 meters. A 15-year-old, running 40 miles per week, achieved a 4:10 mile. Most recently, a 17-year-old female athlete ran 4:26 for 1500 meters on a weekly training volume of just 26 kilometers. Back in the 1980s, these performances would have been considered extraordinary—but this is the reality of the present moment.
This is just from one small training group in a world that is so big. Champions are everywhere and it is a privilege to be a part of the next gen journey.
When it comes to drugs in the sport, so do you apparently. But keep the blindfold on if it makes you happy.
How many teenagers have you coached?
I've coached teenagers in other sports. Believe it or not, I was once also a teenage athlete myself - and actually excelled at it. But you are deluding yourself if you think doping isn't throughout the sport today and including in schools.
So Centro being an Olympic champion well before him didn't have that impact?
Mr Armstrong I've had the privilege of working with some remarkable young athletes. One 11-year-old completed a 5k parkrun in an impressive 16:47. A 13-year-old girl, training just twice a week, ran 2:12 for 800 meters. A 15-year-old, running 40 miles per week, achieved a 4:10 mile. Most recently, a 17-year-old female athlete ran 4:26 for 1500 meters on a weekly training volume of just 26 kilometers. Back in the 1980s, these performances would have been considered extraordinary—but this is the reality of the present moment.
This is just from one small training group in a world that is so big. Champions are everywhere and it is a privilege to be a part of the next gen journey.
So what is your explanation for the sudden appearance of apparent prodigies today when such performances were virtually unknown in previous decades? Did talented youngsters not engage in the sport in the past? It isnt as though kids have only just discovered the sport - or that levels of participation in the sport has suddenly increased. There are other sports far more popular than running.
But even if you can point to exceptional performances today they don't show that the very best performances now being recorded by teenagers will be necessarily be clean. WADA has found that doping is in schools and teenage sport as it is at every other level, from open and pros to masters. There is no single change to the sport that explains a sudden elevation in teenage sports in the last few years better than the use of peds where previously they have been little used. If ambitious seniors dope, why wouldn't juniors?
Mr Armstrong I've had the privilege of working with some remarkable young athletes. One 11-year-old completed a 5k parkrun in an impressive 16:47. A 13-year-old girl, training just twice a week, ran 2:12 for 800 meters. A 15-year-old, running 40 miles per week, achieved a 4:10 mile. Most recently, a 17-year-old female athlete ran 4:26 for 1500 meters on a weekly training volume of just 26 kilometers. Back in the 1980s, these performances would have been considered extraordinary—but this is the reality of the present moment.
This is just from one small training group in a world that is so big. Champions are everywhere and it is a privilege to be a part of the next gen journey.
So what is your explanation for the sudden appearance of apparent prodigies today when such performances were virtually unknown in previous decades? Did talented youngsters not engage in the sport in the past? It isnt as though kids have only just discovered the sport - or that levels of participation in the sport has suddenly increased. There are other sports far more popular than running.
But even if you can point to exceptional performances today they don't show that the very best performances now being recorded by teenagers will be necessarily be clean. WADA has found that doping is in schools and teenage sport as it is at every other level, from open and pros to masters. There is no single change to the sport that explains a sudden elevation in teenage sports in the last few years better than the use of peds where previously they have been little used. If ambitious seniors dope, why wouldn't juniors?
He gave the answers in his previous post. I have asked you more than once to read it.
I've coached teenagers in other sports. Believe it or not, I was once also a teenage athlete myself - and actually excelled at it. But you are deluding yourself if you think doping isn't throughout the sport today and including in schools.
I am not deluding myself. I said nothing about doping. You are deluding yourself by thinking such results are only possible with doping.
Mr Armstrong I've had the privilege of working with some remarkable young athletes. One 11-year-old completed a 5k parkrun in an impressive 16:47. A 13-year-old girl, training just twice a week, ran 2:12 for 800 meters. A 15-year-old, running 40 miles per week, achieved a 4:10 mile. Most recently, a 17-year-old female athlete ran 4:26 for 1500 meters on a weekly training volume of just 26 kilometers. Back in the 1980s, these performances would have been considered extraordinary—but this is the reality of the present moment.
This is just from one small training group in a world that is so big. Champions are everywhere and it is a privilege to be a part of the next gen journey.
So what is your explanation for the sudden appearance of apparent prodigies today when such performances were virtually unknown in previous decades? Did talented youngsters not engage in the sport in the past? It isnt as though kids have only just discovered the sport - or that levels of participation in the sport has suddenly increased. There are other sports far more popular than running.
But even if you can point to exceptional performances today they don't show that the very best performances now being recorded by teenagers will be necessarily be clean. WADA has found that doping is in schools and teenage sport as it is at every other level, from open and pros to masters. There is no single change to the sport that explains a sudden elevation in teenage sports in the last few years better than the use of peds where previously they have been little used. If ambitious seniors dope, why wouldn't juniors?
So here you are saying juniors are doping, so in your mind what’s a 3200 time for a junior boy that you would automatically assume he’s not clean?
Just look at what Jane did on her All Access video 3x3200, 2x800 and 150m fast. Yes the times were insane, but her effort was completely chill. She would be totally fine to do it again 48 hours later if needed. Can you imagine even in 2010 doing 7+ miles of work as a HS girl? She probably ran 11 miles that day.
15 years ago We had a distance coach that thought 6 miles was a LONG RUN. We did 300 repeats hard almost weekly, had workouts where he would literally pull reps out of a hat, and he insisted we should only run 2 miles the day before every meet. It's honestly unbelievable what we still accomplished training like we did from February through May.
There were (and still are) teams training WORSE than that. We had a 1:55 guy, a 4:20 guy and and 9:30 guy - just imagine that those guys exist all over the place and what they could do with better coaching.
Literally 1 year of college training and I went from a 9:45 2 miler to an 8:30 3k. The training wasn't even perfect, it was WAY too hard for us walk-ons (we ALL ran tempos at 5:00 pace as a team), but just the amount of work we did was drastically different to the point I smashed my 5k PR in an 8 mile LT.
Now imagine HS seniors are training like college freshmen - but rather than being thrown at the wall and seeing who breaks, the training is challenging, but actually tailored to the kid. Add that to Strava, shoes, better competition raising the bar for everyone - I'm honestly surprised that we aren't seeing even MORE depth than we already do.
Genuinely how is this possible for a HS girl to accomplish this in the US? Same goes for all the insane HS performances in the last 5 years. Just crazy amounts of success. What are these kids doing now? I need to know bc it’s drastically different
Having trained in the mid 80's by high school coaches who thought repeat 400's were the only way to success the information that is available to coaches now is very different. Any coach or athlete can look on STRAVA and see what 18 year old 3:47 miler Cameron Myers does.
The shoes make a difference for sure in the amount of quality you can give athletes. I remember doing 4mile threshold efforts and some strides afterward and thinking that was a session. In todays world I have 15/16 year old athletes that do up to 8-10k worth of threshold work and are able to back it up 2 days later with more faster running.
It's not just high schoolers getting faster as you see 7th and 8th graders are absolutely flying as well.
A different world!
New shoes, or not, over training is over training. Unless they aren’t pushing hard, 15/16 year old kids running 8-10K of intervals, are going to burn out.
So what is your explanation for the sudden appearance of apparent prodigies today when such performances were virtually unknown in previous decades? Did talented youngsters not engage in the sport in the past? It isnt as though kids have only just discovered the sport - or that levels of participation in the sport has suddenly increased. There are other sports far more popular than running.
But even if you can point to exceptional performances today they don't show that the very best performances now being recorded by teenagers will be necessarily be clean. WADA has found that doping is in schools and teenage sport as it is at every other level, from open and pros to masters. There is no single change to the sport that explains a sudden elevation in teenage sports in the last few years better than the use of peds where previously they have been little used. If ambitious seniors dope, why wouldn't juniors?
So here you are saying juniors are doping, so in your mind what’s a 3200 time for a junior boy that you would automatically assume he’s not clean?
Whatever time was ran before color TV was invented, probably. 🙄
According to this site it's all because of super shoes and bi-carb. Even though everyone has those things, and high schoolers are way closer to the front of all ages now than ever before. You used to be a stud in high school running 4:09 for a mile, even though the top in the world was 19 seconds faster running around 3:50 (world champs sub 3:50). Now you've got to be right around 4:00 to be that type of person, but the best in the world are running 3:47/3:48 for the mile (world champs 3:45). So high schoolers have gotten fast sooner in life and are closing the gap. As people have pointed out, they've closed the gap because they are doing top level training earlier in life.
According to this site it's all because of super shoes and bi-carb. Even though everyone has those things, and high schoolers are way closer to the front of all ages now than ever before. You used to be a stud in high school running 4:09 for a mile, even though the top in the world was 19 seconds faster running around 3:50 (world champs sub 3:50). Now you've got to be right around 4:00 to be that type of person, but the best in the world are running 3:47/3:48 for the mile (world champs 3:45). So high schoolers have gotten fast sooner in life and are closing the gap. As people have pointed out, they've closed the gap because they are doing top level training earlier in life.
Nuguse, Ryun, Hocker and Kessler, didn’t do top level training earlier in life.
Mr Armstrong I've had the privilege of working with some remarkable young athletes. One 11-year-old completed a 5k parkrun in an impressive 16:47. A 13-year-old girl, training just twice a week, ran 2:12 for 800 meters. A 15-year-old, running 40 miles per week, achieved a 4:10 mile. Most recently, a 17-year-old female athlete ran 4:26 for 1500 meters on a weekly training volume of just 26 kilometers. Back in the 1980s, these performances would have been considered extraordinary—but this is the reality of the present moment.
This is just from one small training group in a world that is so big. Champions are everywhere and it is a privilege to be a part of the next gen journey.
So what is your explanation for the sudden appearance of apparent prodigies today when such performances were virtually unknown in previous decades? Did talented youngsters not engage in the sport in the past? It isnt as though kids have only just discovered the sport - or that levels of participation in the sport has suddenly increased. There are other sports far more popular than running.
But even if you can point to exceptional performances today they don't show that the very best performances now being recorded by teenagers will be necessarily be clean. WADA has found that doping is in schools and teenage sport as it is at every other level, from open and pros to masters. There is no single change to the sport that explains a sudden elevation in teenage sports in the last few years better than the use of peds where previously they have been little used. If ambitious seniors dope, why wouldn't juniors?
"sudden appearance of apparent prodigies today" Are you serious? We have "prodigies" every year.