We changed the thread titled to make it more descriptive. It was initially titled, "Ruthe and Tanner dead heat."
If you are unfamiliar with Ruthe, since the start of 2025, he has set World records for fastest 1500 (3:41.25), mile (4:01.72) and 3000 (7:56.18) ever run by someone at the age of 15 (he turns 16 on April 12). That being said, him tying Tanner is a shock as Tanner ran 3:51 in the mile for the win at BU on February 21 and has a 3:31 1500 pb from 2023.
We also merged a 2nd thread into this one. It was titled, "Sam Ruthe and Sam Tanner tie in NZ 1500m Champs!"
Why is this shocking? Faster runners than Tanner have lost tactical races. In 2016, Centro outkicked much faster runners in the Olympics. Faster PB doesn't mean they win automatically.
For a 15 year old to tie with a 3:31 runner is off the charts. It is as hard to believe as much as anything in the sport today.
It’s still a relatively slow time and maybe Tanner is not fit and/or didn’t take the race seriously. The guys a couple a seconds behind him are barely 4:00 milers and there are American HSers who could run those splits. He ran a great race but he’s still nowhere near 3:31.
I don't suggest he is anywhere near 3:31 for the 1500. But to be competitive with an athlete of that level, whose pr is 10 secs faster over the mile, and better than other 4:00 milers indicates he is better than 4:00 by quite a margin. That is considerably better than Ingebrigtsen at the same age and faster than athletes like Ryun when they were 2 years older - and they were prodigies who trained like adults.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
With all due respect to the Kiwis, but why does it look like they have less of an attendance than your average hs meet? And one stationary camera for their national meet? I guess I’m just as stunned as by the performance of Sam^2
With all due respect to the Kiwis, but why does it look like they have less of an attendance than your average hs meet? And one stationary camera for their national meet? I guess I’m just as stunned as by the performance of Sam^2
As I said on another thread, it is because track is a minority sport in a country not much bigger than a county in the US.
It’s still a relatively slow time and maybe Tanner is not fit and/or didn’t take the race seriously. The guys a couple a seconds behind him are barely 4:00 milers and there are American HSers who could run those splits. He ran a great race but he’s still nowhere near 3:31.
I don't suggest he is anywhere near 3:31 for the 1500. But to be competitive with an athlete of that level, whose pr is 10 secs faster over the mile, and better than other 4:00 milers indicates he is better than 4:00 by quite a margin. That is considerably better than Ingebrigtsen at the same age and faster than athletes like Ryun when they were 2 years older - and they were prodigies who trained like adults.
It’s still a relatively slow time and maybe Tanner is not fit and/or didn’t take the race seriously. The guys a couple a seconds behind him are barely 4:00 milers and there are American HSers who could run those splits. He ran a great race but he’s still nowhere near 3:31.
I don't suggest he is anywhere near 3:31 for the 1500. But to be competitive with an athlete of that level, whose pr is 10 secs faster over the mile, and better than other 4:00 milers indicates he is better than 4:00 by quite a margin. That is considerably better than Ingebrigtsen at the same age and faster than athletes like Ryun when they were 2 years older - and they were prodigies who trained like adults.
Best not to compare him to Ryun. Ryun started running when he was about 15-1/2, which is one reason his story is so notable. He went from 5:38 in Sept of ‘62 to 3:59 in June of ‘64, less than two years. The new breed of junior stars seem to have started training when they were younger than 10 yrs old. Very few Americans are involved in organized track when that young. Other sports take precidence for the most part.
Sam Ruthe started training late, despite having runner parents, so he's more the Ryun type, late to the scene, quick to the fore, than an early prodigy like Jakob.
Why is this shocking? Faster runners than Tanner have lost tactical races. In 2016, Centro outkicked much faster runners in the Olympics. Faster PB doesn't mean they win automatically.
Please. You are showing your lack of sophisticated understanding of running.
Centrowitz was the world leader in the mile at 3:50 in 2016. He won world indoors. The year before he ran 3:30.40 for 1500. The world lead in the 1500 for 2016 was 3:29.33.
So he won a tactical race over guys who were at most 2-3 seconds faster than him, maybe 1-2.
In case, Ruthe, who has run the equivalent of 3:59 flat in the mile, just tied a guy who has run 3:51 this year. So 7.5 seconds faster.
In college, a 4:00 guy almost never loses to 4:07.5 even if it's tactical.
Why is this shocking? Faster runners than Tanner have lost tactical races. In 2016, Centro outkicked much faster runners in the Olympics. Faster PB doesn't mean they win automatically.
Please. You are showing your lack of sophisticated understanding of running.
Centrowitz was the world leader in the mile at 3:50 in 2016. He won world indoors. The year before he ran 3:30.40 for 1500. The world lead in the 1500 for 2016 was 3:29.33.
So he won a tactical race over guys who were at most 2-3 seconds faster than him, maybe 1-2.
In case, Ruthe, who has run the equivalent of 3:59 flat in the mile, just tied a guy who has run 3:51 this year. So 7.5 seconds faster.
In college, a 4:00 guy almost never loses to 4:07.5 even if it's tactical.
It’s still a relatively slow time and maybe Tanner is not fit and/or didn’t take the race seriously. The guys a couple a seconds behind him are barely 4:00 milers and there are American HSers who could run those splits. He ran a great race but he’s still nowhere near 3:31.
I don't suggest he is anywhere near 3:31 for the 1500. But to be competitive with an athlete of that level, whose pr is 10 secs faster over the mile, and better than other 4:00 milers indicates he is better than 4:00 by quite a margin. That is considerably better than Ingebrigtsen at the same age and faster than athletes like Ryun when they were 2 years older - and they were prodigies who trained like adults.
This race wasn’t an Olympic final. Tanner is not in 3:31 shape, and how hard he pushed himself is an unknown. When Ruthe runs outdoors this spring, we’ll have a much better idea of just how good he is.
Meanwhile, Ruthe seems to be the one person on the planet that you don’t think is a doper.
For a runner that out kicked hocker in a 3.34 1500 and ran 3.31 and finished within a second of wightman and bet kerr all in 2022 at the age of 21 this can't be sugar coated as anything but a poor result .
Hopefully his team works out quickly whats going wrong and Tanner fulfills the promise he showed when he was younger .
For a runner that out kicked hocker in a 3.34 1500 and ran 3.31 and finished within a second of wightman and bet kerr all in 2022 at the age of 21 this can't be sugar coated as anything but a poor result .
Hopefully his team works out quickly whats going wrong and Tanner fulfills the promise he showed when he was younger .
Interesting take since he and Ruthe are on the same club team and do a lot of training together. Is Tanner's coach brilliant when coaching Ruthe and clueless when coaching Tanner?
For a runner that out kicked hocker in a 3.34 1500 and ran 3.31 and finished within a second of wightman and bet kerr all in 2022 at the age of 21 this can't be sugar coated as anything but a poor result .
Hopefully his team works out quickly whats going wrong and Tanner fulfills the promise he showed when he was younger .
Interesting take since he and Ruthe are on the same club team and do a lot of training together. Is Tanner's coach brilliant when coaching Ruthe and clueless when coaching Tanner?
Craig Kirkwood definitely isn’t useless. Tanner turns 25 in August and off watching him live this summer I think 3.33/34 is his cap from now on. 3.51 in Boston enough has been said about that track. Domestically Tanner always had an explosive kick which doesn’t seem quite as vicious in the last 18 months. CK has upped his mileage which personally I don’t think is the right way for Sam. He definitely can’t go down to 800 or up to 5000 I reckon 1.46 and 13.15 would be his limit. I think Sam is stuck at someone who will get to major semis at best however he will have the opportunity to represent his country at 4 Olympic Games which is something 99.99999% of us never will. Ruthe on the other hand I genuinely believe he will be in the Olympic final in 3 years at age 19. He is special.
I don't suggest he is anywhere near 3:31 for the 1500. But to be competitive with an athlete of that level, whose pr is 10 secs faster over the mile, and better than other 4:00 milers indicates he is better than 4:00 by quite a margin. That is considerably better than Ingebrigtsen at the same age and faster than athletes like Ryun when they were 2 years older - and they were prodigies who trained like adults.
This race wasn’t an Olympic final. Tanner is not in 3:31 shape, and how hard he pushed himself is an unknown. When Ruthe runs outdoors this spring, we’ll have a much better idea of just how good he is.
Meanwhile, Ruthe seems to be the one person on the planet that you don’t think is a doper.
When Ruthe runs outdoors in spring it will be at the end of a long season for a 15 year old.
What more do you need to "get an idea of just how good he is" for a 15 year old kid - are stopwatches different in the US? Does the imperial system measure time differently?