I don’t mean to be negative but there’s a reason most records for the elderly in track and field are from white people. Because it’s not competitive. We need to celebrate where it matters.
Little financial incentive for 60 year old Kenyans to dope to win VM60 races.
Most 60 year old Kenyan former pros are dead or wrecked from the doping they did when they were young.
The senior 1500m is now dominated by white people (with the exception of Nuguse) because of better anti-doping in Kenya and North Africa. Of course, the exception might creep through such as Wanyonyi, whose coach actually admits to blood testing his athletes so they don't get busted, and he may well run 3:23 or 3:24 this year if he takes the 1500 seriously (and doesn't get popped). Same is true for Sedjati.
The racism against Wanyoni in your post aside, I don't see him as a true 1,500m runner.
I am aware of his decent road mile last year, but he's a bit muscular and I'd still class him as a speed-based 800m runner.
I'm looking forward to him and Arop trying to break the 800m WR this year.
Little financial incentive for 60 year old Kenyans to dope to win VM60 races.
Most 60 year old Kenyan former pros are dead or wrecked from the doping they did when they were young.
The senior 1500m is now dominated by white people (with the exception of Nuguse) because of better anti-doping in Kenya and North Africa. Of course, the exception might creep through such as Wanyonyi, whose coach actually admits to blood testing his athletes so they don't get busted, and he may well run 3:23 or 3:24 this year if he takes the 1500 seriously (and doesn't get popped). Same is true for Sedjati.
You actually think USA athletes are catching up because of better antidoping in Africa? Not a chance. It’s because USA has caught onto the corruption, that’s how you win. If you can’t beat them, join them.
On rare occasions, I begrudgingly respect your posts because you say what needs to be said. But you need to educate yourself on TRT.
TRT is not a magic elixir for aging distance runners for a number of reasons - at higher doses there is too much water weight gain (especially in the feet), crappy sleep, difficulty breathing, etc. My cardio was garbage on TRT.
EPO is the far more effective choice regardless of age.
I'm a senior fitness enthusiast/influencer (64) & have not heard of any older guys feeling that bad on TRT or experiencing those side-effects on standard doses of TRT. On the contrary, guys I know at my gym on TRT report phenomenal results & often question why they didn't go on it sooner.
How old are you? What was your baseline & what level did you boost up to? Any thoughts from your doctor on this?
Keep in mind that TRT has a dose-dependant stimulatory effect on erythropoiesis raising Hct/Hgb levels which is more pronounced in older men:
(I know a couple of guys over the years on TRT who's Hct went from a baseline of ~43 to over 50 on just the standard TRT dose the Low-T center put them on).
TRT also off-sets the stress of more intense excercise which would significantly aid in the recovery of an older athlete:
On rare occasions, I begrudgingly respect your posts because you say what needs to be said. But you need to educate yourself on TRT.
TRT is not a magic elixir for aging distance runners for a number of reasons - at higher doses there is too much water weight gain (especially in the feet), crappy sleep, difficulty breathing, etc. My cardio was garbage on TRT.
EPO is the far more effective choice regardless of age.
Harder to obtain and get away with. But my point generally is that there is likely something more involved than natural talent and training.
I'm a senior fitness enthusiast/influencer (64) & have not heard of any older guys feeling that bad on TRT or experiencing those side-effects on standard doses of TRT. On the contrary, guys I know at my gym on TRT report phenomenal results & often question why they didn't go on it sooner.
How old are you? What was your baseline & what level did you boost up to? Any thoughts from your doctor on this?
Keep in mind that TRT has a dose-dependant stimulatory effect on erythropoiesis raising Hct/Hgb levels which is more pronounced in older men:
(I know a couple of guys over the years on TRT who's Hct went from a baseline of ~43 to over 50 on just the standard TRT dose the Low-T center put them on).
TRT also off-sets the stress of more intense excercise which would significantly aid in the recovery of an older athlete:
"You haven't heard of any older guys feeling that bad on TRT " . Let me guess, you're against dopers.
Definitely, if it's against the rules in a Masters competition then TRT/HRT users are doping (nothing new there. Lol).
My point on this post is there's a lot of TRT/HRT use with middle-aged & senior men - both with competitive & non-competitive guys. Prescriptions are skyrocketing - it's a multi-billion $$$ global enterprise.
I'm in the gym everyday pounding away at cardio & strength training. Due to my age (64) & injury history, I can't run anymore. I see & talk to a lot of guys on TRT/HRT. The ones that take it seriously training hard & eating healthy are getting tremendous results.
There's plenty of YT channels with middle-aged/senior men showing the benefits they received using TRT/HRT (some even compete in non-tested sporting events).
Go checkout 78 yr old Sly Stallone's workout videos on YT. He's on TRT/HRT & look at him - the muscularity, leanness, strength & cardio endurance! 😯 (I wouldn't doubt though that some of you youngsters will probably argue that he could be natural & that he has good genetics or something. 🤣).
You actually think USA athletes are catching up because of better antidoping in Africa? Not a chance. It’s because USA has caught onto the corruption, that’s how you win. If you can’t beat them, join them.
If it wasn't for better anti-doping in Kenya, the top Kenyans (and Moroccans) would be running sub 3:24 these days with all the tech advantages and a near doubling of population. Instead, they're breaking sub 3:30 on a good day, slower than they were 20 years ago. (Moroccans - busted 'Spaniard' Katir aside - even slower).
The Americans are suspicious, I agree, but Kerr and Wightman are examples of very likely clean athletes who have 'stepped up' their game and improved because they were in contention for medals. I just doubt if Kerr would be as dedicated (or even Jakob) if Kenyans and North Africans were routinely running 3:25, as they would be if they were able to dope like Lagat, El G, Komen, Ngeny etc were.
If Wanyonyi and Sedjati do move up and start blitzing WRs without getting busted, I doubt very much if Kerr and Wightman and a few others will hang around for long.
1500m WRs Age 40 3:37.9 -Lagat. Converted from 3:54.9 mile time = 3:27.71 age graded AG 45 3:48.72 = 3:30.56 AG 50 3:58.26 = 3:31.37 AG 55 4:11.79= 3:34.71 AG 60 4:19.00 - projected outdoor time = 3:31.71 AG 65 4:29.00 Projected some time in next 5 years = 3:30.2
Age-graded equivalents are not accurate conversions in terms of what one could have run.
I understand there are equivalence tables but they are incorrect.
For example, if a 50 year male one day breaks 4 minutes; that does not mean he would have run 3:38 as a younger man.
Improved longevity and social conditions means masters runners are running times closer to elite than before. Notice the WR for normal age in middle distances are not moving much.
Maybe, maybe not. Lagat's conversion is close to his 1500 Best time.
Not about saying, that's what you could have run, simply showing the impressiveness of the performance is on par with xx:×× time.
I respectfully disagree. I think they are fairly accurate
It really shouldn't matter to you anyway as the %s apply equally in each age group.
1500m WRs Age 40 3:37.9 -Lagat. Converted from 3:54.9 mile time = 3:27.71 age graded AG 45 3:48.72 = 3:30.56 AG 50 3:58.26 = 3:31.37 AG 55 4:11.79= 3:34.71 AG 60 4:19.00 - projected outdoor time = 3:31.71 AG 65 4:29.00 Projected some time in next 5 years = 3:30.2
Age-graded equivalents are not accurate conversions in terms of what one could have run.
I understand there are equivalence tables but they are incorrect.
For example, if a 50 year male one day breaks 4 minutes; that does not mean he would have run 3:38 as a younger man.
Improved longevity and social conditions means masters runners are running times closer to elite than before. Notice the WR for normal age in middle distances are not moving much.
Am I the only one that guessed really poorly (much, much faster than 4:20. . . I was thinking sub-4)? I'm 55 and haven't raced in years, but I do still run and don't feel THAT far off age 46, when I was still competitive for overall awards localy. 4:11 at 55 seems attainable for someone like me who is not really elite, and 60 is just 4.2 years away. And no, I'm not on TRT or any anti-aging drugs. I bet someone like Lagat could go sub-4 1500 at 60 anyway if he stays fit.