Coe was my all-time favorite and he was a 800/1000m runner who could move up thru the mile. He could move slightly down to the 400m but was not truly great there.
He was NEVER a 3k/5k guy. Did not run those events.
He trained for and raced the 800/1000/1500/mile. WRs at all 4.
This is not true. He ran the 3k and cross country frequently as up until 18. He showed more promise in those events.
We disagree then. He was a 1000m type runner. His ideal distance. He moved up and down from there. If you believe he was a 3000m runner, we will simply disagree.
I know all about his bio. Was a huge fan. My favorite runner of all-time.
This is not true. He ran the 3k and cross country frequently as up until 18. He showed more promise in those events.
We disagree then. He was a 1000m type runner. His ideal distance. He moved up and down from there. If you believe he was a 3000m runner, we will simply disagree.
I know all about his bio. Was a huge fan. My favorite runner of all-time.
It’s nothing to disagree with. You said he didn’t run those events. He did, in fact, run those events.
What event you think he was best at is irrelevant.
Not true; for example he ran in the Emsley Carr mile on August 29, 1977, outsprinting Filbert Bayi of Tanzania in the home straight and winning in 3:57.7.
Ah my bad, obviously his World Athletics isn’t comprehensive for those seasons. Thanks for the correction.
He also ran a 1500m or mile against John Walker and David Moorcroft just after the Montreal Olympics, and gave both a really good fright. He was way out in front but just didn't have the strength to hang on. John Walker said that after that race he knew Coe would be special if he worked on his strength. The 1976 Olympics came a few months too soon for him.
Coe intended to move up to the 5000m after LA and trained for it over the 84/85 winter. His father said he was in incredible shape and expected him to smash WRs, but then he started having problems with his back and abandonded the idea of moving up.
On 1 October 1978, Coe displayed to the world for the first time his phenomenal natural endurance by winning the Loughrea 4-Mile road race in Ireland in 17:54, defeating the likes of Eamonn Coghlan (who would win the 5000m at the 1983 World Championships) and Mike McLeod (who would be the 1984 Olympic 10,000m silver medalist), and breaking Brendan Foster's course record of 18:05
Was reading the George Mills article where his 7:40 broke a record from the 1980's and in a race where Coe placed 3rd. Many Coe fans will make you believe he was undefeated at 3km and never actually ran any championships, but to this day the man retired with personal bests of 7:54 and 14:06.
Coe also beat Coghlan (83 World Champion) and McCloud (10000m Olympic silver medalist) in a 4 Mile road race in Ireland at the end of '78, off a season running only 800m races! Both Coghlan & Mcloud had run 13.20 that season. Coe also won the famous Vigevano road race twice; 20:59 for 7.5km in 1980, some 38 seconds faster than Ovett was to record winning the same race the following year, & 1983, recording 18.28 for the 6.7km; (27:33 pace for 10,000m). He also had a background of X country running as a teenager and was English Schools 3000m champion at 16
Yes Google “Seb Coe junior times” and you will see he was a 1500m and 3000m runner on the track in his youth. He ran 8:49 for 3000m at 15 years of age. He was also a very good cross country runner in his youth.
The overall point here is that optimal training at the highest levels is very different for 800/1500 athletes than it is for 3000/5000 athletes, especially if the primary focus is 5000. Aside from what Coe did in cross country and 3000 as a youth, and probably for many reasons, he and his father decided to focus on 800/1500. Even a casual glance at his training will show that it was heavily geared to those race distances. So obviously he was much better at what his training was geared to. In addition to his huge success in the 800/1500, the speed he developed and showed in the 400 was further proof that they made the right decision.
Could he have run a faster 5000? Yes, of course. But who cares? It's totally beside the point. It's a little like saying Bill Gates could have been a pretty good lawyer.
Ah my bad, obviously his World Athletics isn’t comprehensive for those seasons. Thanks for the correction.
He also ran a 1500m or mile against John Walker and David Moorcroft just after the Montreal Olympics, and gave both a really good fright. He was way out in front but just didn't have the strength to hang on. John Walker said that after that race he knew Coe would be special if he worked on his strength. The 1976 Olympics came a few months too soon for him.
Coe intended to move up to the 5000m after LA and trained for it over the 84/85 winter. His father said he was in incredible shape and expected him to smash WRs, but then he started having problems with his back and abandonded the idea of moving up.
“His father said he was in incredible shape and expected him to smash WRs…”
I can’t think of a more worthless source than what someone’s dad said.
He won a 4 mile road race, in Ireland, in Ireland in 17:54, breaking the course record set by Brendan Foster (third Olympic 10000m) the previous year and outkicking Mike McLeod (Olympic Silver 10000m, behind dopped up Cova; Golden Spikes 10000m - then like World Championship - winner twice), Eamon Coghlan (European 5000m winner) and Spedding (Bronze Olympic Marathon, London Marathon winner).
He had plans to move to 5000m, and started running some road-relays (generally around 3 mile legs) in the spring, but then sickness and injury intervened, and that went by the wayside.
Ovett, despite all his speed as a youngster (British age record for 400m), was more distance oriented than Coe and ran a lot more mileage in training. He ran 28:14 for a 10k road race and won the Commonwealth Championship 5000m as well as his half-marathon win over Barry Watson, then the top British Marathon runner.
Given his 400m speed, it's hard to believe that Coe would ever have been absolutely top-class at 3000m and 5000m, whereas Ovett had a world-record over 2 miles (a race in which he beat Henry Rono), and defeated the best British 5000m runners in the Commonwealth Games, and years earlier, when very young in a race where he finished second to Yifter.
Ah my bad, obviously his World Athletics isn’t comprehensive for those seasons. Thanks for the correction.
He also ran a 1500m or mile against John Walker and David Moorcroft just after the Montreal Olympics, and gave both a really good fright. He was way out in front but just didn't have the strength to hang on. John Walker said that after that race he knew Coe would be special if he worked on his strength. The 1976 Olympics came a few months too soon for him.
Coe intended to move up to the 5000m after LA and trained for it over the 84/85 winter. His father said he was in incredible shape and expected him to smash WRs, but then he started having problems with his back and abandonded the idea of moving up.
I think Peter Coe and most other coaches of the day, were not fully aware of the fundamental difference between 800 1500 and the 5k.
they were under the impression that the very very good aerobic ability of their athletes translated nearly directly to global podium 5k ability.
no
to make the adaptation there is another aerobic level to achieve, which is speculative for those with a great anaerobic threshold, which disguises slightly sub optimal aerobic ability in the mile .
also, these guys were looking at tackling the 5k after their prime years, all combined, what could go wrong?
ovett, coe walker coghlan etc. forays into the 5k were pretty much over before they started, though there was some success, obviously a top mile guy can hit the podium in a one off minor champ.
even El G learned the difference in 5k, where he was hanging on for dearest of life in his OG win, needing the perfect ride all the way, to squeak out the win.
legit 5k runners are the biggest aerobic monsters on the planet.
anaerobic ability is worth a heck of a lot in 800 to mile, and is a useful and secondary factor moving up.
He's an 800/1500 runner, makes sense that he would get worse as the distance moves beyond 1 by500.
So was Cram, and he ran an 8:15 2-mile and 13:29. Ovett ran 8:12 and 13:20. It’s likely Coe could have run as fast as those two, but never ran the distances when he was healthy and in his prime.
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Also Coe was a speed oriented 800,/1500m runner capable of 46 points in the open 400m. Logically the 1500m was his top limit for optimal performance; therefore, he didn't focus much on longer events.
He had lots of potential in those distances but I believed his father didn't believe that you needed "aerobic strength" to run a faster 1500. He believed that speed and anaerobic power along with a well developed aerobic system was the key. Not to also mention his natural sprint speed (He started off with the 100m). Seb coe had the same genetic background as Steve Ovett they had lots of natural speed (a strong type iia background) compared to Steve cram and they both could've ran distances from the 4x4 all the way up to the marathon but I believe they preferred the middle distance events. Sebastian actually started off with the 1500/3000m in high school but transitioned to 800/1500 afterwards. You would rarely find a 800/1500 type because most 1500m runners are excellent in the 2 mile and 5k.
I'll take a piece off this. Anaerobic ability isn't really a secondary factor in the longer distances. You won't find a 5k runner doing 6x200s at mile pace however you may see them doing stuff like 10x400s as "speed work" which they only do once a week besides the long hours of steady state jogging they do daily. The limiting factor for middle and long distances races are:
1. Anaerobic Threshold (Zone 3/4, 4x2000m or 4x10 minutes)
2. Basic endurance (Zone 2, daily runs that make up a distance runner's training)
3. Vo2 max(Zone 5, 6x1k or 7x800m )
4. Speed endurance(Zone 5, 10x400m or 10x200m at mile pace)
He also ran a 1500m or mile against John Walker and David Moorcroft just after the Montreal Olympics, and gave both a really good fright. He was way out in front but just didn't have the strength to hang on. John Walker said that after that race he knew Coe would be special if he worked on his strength. The 1976 Olympics came a few months too soon for him.
Coe intended to move up to the 5000m after LA and trained for it over the 84/85 winter. His father said he was in incredible shape and expected him to smash WRs, but then he started having problems with his back and abandonded the idea of moving up.
“His father said he was in incredible shape and expected him to smash WRs…”
I can’t think of a more worthless source than what someone’s dad said.
Well, ...a minor point I know, but he was his coach.