"Kind of hurt my feelings"- Ritz questions Hoare's desire to compete and race.

And you probably never broke 4:40 for the mile in your life. You just think you're tough.

A third year drop-off is quite common with grinder coaches. There is an old adage that just about any coach can work an athlete hard and get improvement the first two years but the third year is where you see if coaches know their craft.

Seems that group is quite large. In large training groups there will be athletes who don't get the training they need and it isn't necessarily the coach's fault that some of the athletes are not well evaluated. Large groups tend to fall into a cookie-cutter "one size fits all" training method which will not be appropriate for some of the athletes.

The problem with even small training groups is the less developed athletes try to hang with the top performers leading to burn out. Just because a particular athlete is less developed does not mean they lack talent.

An elite athlete coming back from a major injury needs to be very careful about how they bootstrap back into top condition. They either need to understand training and physiology themselves or work with people who do to design an intelligent program tailored for the athletes' circumstances.

I think podcasts as a concept peaked a long time ago. Although I don't mind hearing the boy's opinions occasionally I think they're all (especially Ollie) would benefit from making it a monthly thing and just focus on being runners.
Get the fck off social media and get back to finding enjoyment in the process of running and competing.

is this coach mind games?

i have no idea.

i had great coaches, due to the fact, I drank the cool aid 100%, which made them great coaches by definition. plus they were top guys

but following cookie cutter was a big mistake.

the training i really thrived on and loved was hard mile to three mile work, and i had to do LSD, where it made me slow and bad form, I was already a natural for distance, and it felt all wrong.

at the end of the day, the training that worked is the stuff they do not.

as and athlete, you need to follow the coach and interpret and own the instructions.

something like that.

.

Exactly. And some runners do better with LSD but not shorter intense work. The first thing a coach needs to do is figure out what works for the individual athlete. A coach can't really do that with a large group and there is not much incentive in doing so for the less developed runners.

I think this is right. Part of me agrees with Rojo, that Hoare can't really exist in a group where Nuguse is so much better. It probably means that Hoare doesn't get the individualised attention and training that he might need to get close to Nuguse's level. If they're both doing the same training and Nuguse has more baseline talent, how can Hoare hope to get near him? It seems like Hoare is in a difficult position because he obviously loves the living situation he has, with good friends on the team, but the training seems to not suit him. He needs a different stimulus, otherwise he'll just be running down the last years of his career. He's 28 now, so probably has 3 years at the maximum left as a top miler. So, where does he go from here?

Every time there is a thread about the OAC this comment appears. I'm assuming it's the same poster always trying to stir something up.

It's totally understandable for a guy who rose swiftly to the heights of the world and then has been injury-plagued and stagnating to question himself, his coach, and his training, as Ollie has been doing. It's also good for podcast ratings to do it publicly. I hope he gets healthy and it works for him but he may need a change of scenery and a different voice at this point.

It is also just plain good for him to do all of that questioning. If he is smart enough to learn and plan his own training he should consider becoming self coached.

Well I heard something very similar. So there is something going on. It’s more of a catty issue if anything. But hurting the morale.

Olli was in a bad mood the whole podcast, more so than just typical joking around. Clearly he’s going through a rough patch emotionally. Hopefully it’s just the sting of not being where he wants to be but it does seem like things need to get settled or I can actually see him leaving OAC in the not too distant future. I’m rooting for him though 🤞🏻

Rumors like this are always spread by unregistered posters.

He beat world champions either in their prime (Wightman) or just outside it (Cheryuiot) in winning the Commonwealth 1500m and has a sub 3:30 PR. Just because he hasn’t truly contended for a global medal yet doesn’t me he isn’t an elite talent.

CWG champ in 2022, first Diamond League win in 2024. I suspect for a guy who shows his emotions so openly, this inconsistency is messing him up with frustration and depression.

Look, there're two sides to this story.
Ritz: Questioning Ollie's hunger, which maybe he is comparing to Joe's hunger, maybe a little off since not everyone is the same, has different way to get things done.
Ollie: Admitting he needs to take care of his training and life and put more effort to it, yet didn't like what he heard from Ritz.

Maybe he needs to get on the secret sauce that Ritz was on

But physical talent alone isn't enough in this sport and it's why being a pro track and field athlete is THE toughest athletic undertaking you make (and no disrespect to the field eventers but it's even amplified on the track where there are no second chances and your physical and mental resiliency is brutally exposed every time you are out there).

You see stuff like this a lot at junior level - kids who are the star freshman, juniors at HS/collegiate level seem to fall off a cliff the moment they are superseded by the next kid and the same essence is at play for the vast majorities of pros - we are all human.

Hoare and Jake Wightman are two athletes I think have very similar situations right now. Both 3.29 guys, both are DL level winners, guys that with their resumes can start in basically any race they want. Jake has the higher career moment but that's kind of irrelevant - the point is both guys missed time in a summer season due to injury and it sucks but the production line of talent and hungry guys wanting your spot on the track doesn't hit pause waiting for you to come back. So sadly I feel like both their times are done at the highest level and this isn't a slight on them - it's just enough good guys stepped up into their spots and now have the momentum and confidence they don't and it's so hard to recapture it.

The only difference is that Jake makes it a bit easier for himself because he doesn't have his coffee podcast and his social media stuff seems more like a NB obligation vs a tool to bare his soul (which can be a tricky thing to do without coming off poorly).

Hoare is just a big sook. Harden up Nancy boy