Yet by 1980 (45 years ago) the middle distance records were basically "modern" elite times:
The 800m was 1:41, the 1500 was 3:29.
Why is it that the human species hasn't really improved in the middle distances since 1980? Sure, the tracks and shoes are better so the WRs are slightly better, yet the bottom line is that a 1:41 and 3:29 is still super elite today...
The WR in the distance races are CRAZY FASTER! Sub 2 marathon, 2:10:00 women's!
I upvoted you because you are correct. My numbers were off.
My thesis was that a mid-distance guy from 1980 would still be running in the Olympic Final and the Diamond League with NO changes to their training. They put on the super-shoes and they run on the super tracks. They are instantly competitive.
Whereas the 5000m and 10,000m guys would be exposed. Running 28:09 in the 10km would look stupid compared to Nico Young and Grant Fisher's times (for example).
The improvement in the long distances has been much greater than in the middle distances is what I was trying to say.
Aside from technical innovations, I think the proliferation of threshold training is largely responsible for this.
And I'm not talking about double threshold, though that has obviously helped recently.
However, when I started running in the mid-2000s, no one was doing any sort of threshold training at all in Australia. Some may have been doing in in the US, but it didn't get talked about a lot, and it wasn't a weekly/twice weekly staple like it is today.
From reading the books of a lot of the top guys in the 70s and 80s, it's clear that they ran a lot of mileage, did lots of short fast intervals, and the occasional "hard" 10 miler, but they weren't doing any kind of formalised threshold training.
Yet by 1980 (45 years ago) the middle distance records were basically "modern" elite times:
The 800m was 1:41, the 1500 was 3:29.
Why is it that the human species hasn't really improved in the middle distances since 1980? Sure, the tracks and shoes are better so the WRs are slightly better, yet the bottom line is that a 1:41 and 3:29 is still super elite today...
The WR in the distance races are CRAZY FASTER! Sub 2 marathon, 2:10:00 women's!
there are like 4 us guys under 210.
one born in the usa.
the lady 209 marathoner, beats all but 3, and on he day, maybe all .
The WR in the distance races are CRAZY FASTER! Sub 2 marathon, 2:10:00 women's!
there are like 4 us guys under 210.
one born in the usa.
the lady 209 marathoner, beats all but 3, and on he day, maybe all .
This is incorrect. The lady had one outlier performance. Let us see if she ever gets within one minute of her best time. The odds are she won’t. She would probably finish like 9th in a US men’s marathon championship. She wouldn’t necessarily have pacers either.
I upvoted you because you are correct. My numbers were off.
My thesis was that a mid-distance guy from 1980 would still be running in the Olympic Final and the Diamond League with NO changes to their training. They put on the super-shoes and they run on the super tracks. They are instantly competitive.
Whereas the 5000m and 10,000m guys would be exposed. Running 28:09 in the 10km would look stupid compared to Nico Young and Grant Fisher's times (for example).
The improvement in the long distances has been much greater than in the middle distances is what I was trying to say.
His best chance would have been 1968, but he was foiled by the games being held at altitude in Mexico City.
Well it looked like he had a decent chance in 1964 too, but he didn’t have a great kick. He had a pretty good shove though, and Billy Mills was the recipient of it.
Well it looked like he had a decent chance in 1964 too, but he didn’t have a great kick. He had a pretty good shove though, and Billy Mills was the recipient of it.
Well it looked like he had a decent chance in 1964 too, but he didn’t have a great kick. He had a pretty good shove though, and Billy Mills was the recipient of it.
His best chance would have been 1968, but he was foiled by the games being held at altitude in Mexico City.
Clarke lost to Keino over 5000m/3 Miles at the 64 OG, the 66 CG , the 68 OG and the 70 CG. And 5000m was definitely more on Clarke's side than on Keino's.
Surprised he didn’t get physical more often in races, he was usually the biggest guy in any distance race. Of course, in most of his races no one was near him, but it might have served him a bit in championship races where famously stunk it up most of the time.
Ron Clarke had a full time job and a family in addition to his training, how many current runners do that.
True. But he thought those things made him a better runner. He couldn't imagine doing nothing in life but running. He always acknowledged that he could not have run as he did if his wife didn't do as much with their kids as she did.
I don't know if anyone in the thread has pointed out what Ron Clarke's best WR run achieved: He was the first to break 28:00 in the 10,000. He didn't run 27:59. He ran 27:39. That is INSANE!
Clarke could have been a good marathoner; his training was simple. He ran 10 miles per day, pretty quick. Mostly 5:00 pace. He said he occasionally would do 10 x 400 intervals to keep the speed up. I was a kid in the 70s, and read a book called Ron Clarke: Runners and Races. That is how he described his training. It's not exactly marathon training.
The great Australian visited Emil Zatopek in '65 or '66. Emil slipped Ron a package when he was stepping onto the plane to leave. It was his 1952 Olympic 10,000 gold medal. Gifted to Ron.
I don't know if anyone in the thread has pointed out what Ron Clarke's best WR run achieved: He was the first to break 28:00 in the 10,000. He didn't run 27:59. He ran 27:39. That is INSANE!
Clarke could have been a good marathoner; his training was simple. He ran 10 miles per day, pretty quick. Mostly 5:00 pace. He said he occasionally would do 10 x 400 intervals to keep the speed up. I was a kid in the 70s, and read a book called Ron Clarke: Runners and Races. That is how he described his training. It's not exactly marathon training.
The great Australian visited Emil Zatopek in '65 or '66. Emil slipped Ron a package when he was stepping onto the plane to leave. It was his 1952 Olympic 10,000 gold medal. Gifted to Ron.
Clarke I think did not have the gas tank for marathon.
You know the top 10k guy that hits 20 miles and it's over.
Having a full gas tank on the day is the a main "skill" of the marathon.
Running fast for 27 minutes fast does not guarantee a gas tank for 2 hours fast.
Advances in the marathon moving forward is simply figuring out how top up the gas tank.
This is so typical of this site. A guy that ran 8:19, 13:16 and 27:39 in relatively crappy shoes and on relatively crappy tracks is being assessed as a 13:20 runner at best if running with today’s advantages. Well done!
Ok then. What would he have run today? And what proof do you have to support the times you claim he can run.
Give it a rest Hoady. Here he is destroying your hero Kip Kenio in Stockholm 68 two months before the Olympic Games. Obviously Kenio had not had his Mexican hospital 'treatment' yet.
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