. By the way the club alternative will not happen at the college level. There will be a club system but it will be privatized.
What do you mean? There already is NIRCA. Its going to be the option for a lot of would be student athletes who want to go to flagship state schools but can't make a team (if there even is one).
What I mean is that with roster limits it will prohibit the teams in the athletic department from having any interaction whatsoever with the club teams. The scholarship limits were a hard line. To go over was a major violation. The roster limits are the new hard line and are absolute in their limit. Any action by the school sponsored program viewed as going over that limit will be dealt with harshly. That means the coaching staff cannot interact, the club guys cannot run with the team, and many other unforseen outcomes. Some schools may even prohibit club teams from using athletic facilities. I think clubs will be stronger if moved away from higher educational institutions but they didnt ask me.
If there are 300 programs with 20 men, that is 6000 runners. If they run 4 years, that is 1500 runners per year. So over the past 25 years, that's 37K runners. Please name 5 who were low level walk-ons who went on to become conference champs, All Americans, and professionals. If it happens 1% of the time, there would be more than 300.
90% of that money will go back to those money sports to fund the ever increasing arms race and now salary race. The 22 million cap for athlete salaries is a starting point and will definitely go up as this moves forward. When these schools made the decisions to go down this road to professional sports they also stopped pretending to care about robust athletic departments. Olympic sport opportunities at the D1 level will gradually disappear as this trend progresses. You wrongly assume that more money means that football and basketball will share it. Everything from conference realignment to the current fiasco is because football is driving the boat. Our sport that we love is in danger and the only lifeline we have is if the NCAA survives. If this settlement is not approved then the top 40-60 schools will leave and move to an unregulated pro model with no need for other sports as they will only take money away from football and basketball.
Let them fail to be honest, niche sport for the USA.
In other countries you have the club system, maybe the USA can join the 21st century and for these clubs to actually put on meets to fun themselves.
or go down the Japanese route of corporate teams, surely with the Olympics coming up in the states it might be good PB for some enterprising companies.
The FB minded athletic directors 100% are making decisions based entirely on football. They do not care if it makes sense for non-revenue sports. This entire new era is going to cost money. Non-revenue sports literally bring in no money and are money holes. They will most definately pay less than a regular non-athlete because of the operating cost associated with them just being on the team. There is no incentive to do this for the school. The roster limits are the only thing keeping schools from cutting these programs. The roster limits keep operating cost down and I doubt very many P4 schools actually fund 17/45 anyway. They are trying to stay relevent in FB which is getting more expensive by the day. They cannot keep extra spots with the legislation because that defeats the point of the roster limits. if they kept extra spots then it is the same as them having scholarship limits. Threy will get sued and lose and we are right back talking about roster limits.
can you explain why threat of lawsuits mean schools can't give extra spots or impose scholarship limits? i don't get it. i thought they just have to share revenue.
The NCAA in an attempt to limit their liability and ultimately just survive has to get out of the business of having control over manoey available to student athletes. In order to still regulate competative fairness they are limiting roster size instead of money amounts in the form of scholarship. Since roster limits are the new hard line then there will be no exceptions to those limits. To go over roster limits will be the same as going over scholarship limits in the old system. Without approval of this settlement which mandates roster limits instead of scholarship limits, there will be no reason for the big schools to continue on as members of the NCAA. This is the last gasp of the NCAA to try to save the current model of college sports as best it can at the D1 level. The schools were talking about leaving before this settlement. This settlement is a lifeline that comes with hard cuts. The cuts will be much deeper without it.
Let them fail to be honest, niche sport for the USA.
In other countries you have the club system, maybe the USA can join the 21st century and for these clubs to actually put on meets to fun themselves.
or go down the Japanese route of corporate teams, surely with the Olympics coming up in the states it might be good PB for some enterprising companies.
The US system produces almost as many Olympic medals as all other systems combined. Why would we want to “join” everyone else?
The relationship between varsity coach and club will not be a problem in the new world.
club athletes just cannot receive scholarship or nil.
varsity roster will be set for season, excluding club runners.
for the following season coach can recruit from hs, transfers, International, or his own club team to fill in the next year roster.
a guy not making varsity roster can choose to transfer, seeking a guaranteed roster spot and money, or run on club team, while paying his own college costs. Then hope to make next year roster.
The coach will be able to have a relationship with club coach and runners. Ncaa only interested in policing roster spots and money.
The real question is how many athletes will want to stay at their dream school and run club vs transferring to a weaker school for a varsity roster spot?
I disagree. Athletes made decisions based on the rules at the time. Some chose a school because they could run there. They now are off the team living 1000 miles from home. Future athletes will know what the rules are and will decide accordingly.
And schools made their decisions based the rules at the time.
Rules have changed. Unfortunately, that means ramifications.
I'm sorry you disagree but that's the situation we are in. (I don't like it but that's the way it is.)
Most of what you stated is how it already is and probably wont change much. Some schools are much more active in the club and I think that will not be allowed. I do think that the club system at D1 will be more of a dead end for kids than it has been in the past. A kid is going to have to make huge jumps in order to move to varsity when they can go get a an international or transfer who is ready to go now. I think some schools may leave spots empty if they cannot fill them with scholarship ready kids. Especially if they are still required to honor the money for four years.If you are not in the top 7 in XC then your spot is up for grabs every year. Sad really.
No. The limits will hit the current athletes. And they will get cut and then have to make decisions about what to do. Future kids will have those same limits and know them when making college decisions. This isn't a controversial fact.
No. The limits will hit the current athletes. And they will get cut and then have to make decisions about what to do. Future kids will have those same limits and know them when making college decisions. This isn't a controversial fact.
We can disagree. I don't share your opinion. (it's not a fact)
Most of what you stated is how it already is and probably wont change much. Some schools are much more active in the club and I think that will not be allowed. I do think that the club system at D1 will be more of a dead end for kids than it has been in the past. A kid is going to have to make huge jumps in order to move to varsity when they can go get a an international or transfer who is ready to go now. I think some schools may leave spots empty if they cannot fill them with scholarship ready kids. Especially if they are still required to honor the money for four years.If you are not in the top 7 in XC then your spot is up for grabs every year. Sad really.
Why do you think clubs will not be allowed? Club sports and intramurals already thrive now in colleges.
In current system, if a team (any varsity team not just running) was ravaged by injury, they could hold a try out for walkons and generally find a competent athlete.
TCU womens basketball had to do this last year and brought on 4 walkons to field a team.
If I am at BYU, Oregon (running history), UVA, Michigan etc, which are all dream schools for many, and I lose my roster spot, I may just be happy to stay on there as a regular student and get my degree. I could even give club running a try to get back on varsity.
If I am at Cal Baptist, Tulsa, U Mass Lowell, Lipscomb etc, I might want to transfer seeking a roster spot.
I do agree that running club, and getting back on varsity is no easy task. Very tough to stay motivated and disciplined, but not impossible.
There will be a Zoom call this Saturday 1/18/25 to discuss how to continue to fight roster limits and details on how to submit an objection. Time is running out with objections due January 31st! Please join. 2 ways to get details of the Zoom Call:
1. DM Philip Sheng on Twitter/X and he will provide you with the Zoom details
We are making some progress, but we NEED EVERY OBJECTION for the judge to see the harm being done to current student athletes!
This thread made me think of a follow up question. Will the schools have to honor scholarships for four years? Obviously that does not mean they will have a spot on the team but it does change things alot if they are required to honor those scholarships. Imagine having to pay a scholarship to a kid that you cut for four years. This could lead to rosters having open spots. I dont know the fallout but it raises an interesting question.
I dont think club will disappear or not be allowed but I do think that the association with the school sponsored teams will be heavily regulated since the hard line is now roster numbers instead of scholarship dollars. Too much association between the two could lead to violations. Obviously this is all speculation but limiting the spots available to a non-negotable limit forces different rules. Club sport athletes could be labeled recruitable student athletes and then recruiting rules could apply. Here is a thought......what if mid majors started recruiting from Power4 club teams. Those kids are not on rosters and thus would not have to go through the portal. There is another wrinkle for you. Who knows where this will end up in the next 2-5 years.
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