To state the obvious, of course Mt. SAC changes it's course when there is significant rain given it has dirt hills with an incline/decline exceeding 20% in some sections and spikes are not allowed
Oregon is so gross. The weather, the homeless, drugs, woke! Footlocker SD Dec 14 is a REAL XC course with great SD weather! The NXN weather is always gross. The course is flat, muddy.
Footlocker has existed since the late 1970s. Nike butted in with the bigger name and money, and has really diluted Footlocker unfortunately. Shame Sadie E and Rylee Blade nit running Dec 14 FL in SD where they both live in So Cal. Hope Chiara Daly wins. NXN really ruined it. Footlocker a better course and way better weather!
To state the obvious, of course Mt. SAC changes it's course when there is significant rain given it has dirt hills with an incline/decline exceeding 20% in some sections and spikes are not allowed
There is no ban on using spikes at Mt SAC when that course is used for the Foot Locker West race. Although using spikes is probably not practical because some of the course is run on pavement.
All teams run the same course, so nobody really has an advantage. At the end of the day, the SW schools are simply better. The sport is popular there. If you go to NXR SW, the finish area is six layers deep with people trying to watch the race. There are fifteen different high school sections of races plus two citizens races. Heck, the Southwest states (Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada and Colorado) are some of the driest states in the country and hardly have any rain or mud, especially in the fall. But they run just fine in the mud in Oregon (top girls and boys teams, 15 of the top 50 in the girl’s race, 14 boys in the top 40). Heck, Rio Rancho, Provo, Niwot and Highlands Ranch are all well below the US average when it comes to precipitation. If any regions should have an advantage, it’s the S, the SE, the NW, the NE, the MW, NY, etc.
Tbh, I don't think the team component is much of an issues as the individual-qualifier aspect of the NXN races. But given the fact that many of the individual qualifiers this year did terrible, I think the issue still stands.
The winners were both individual qualifiers. I fail to see your point. Heck, the girl’s winner set a course record.
Do you really think Nike is going to hold it anywhere but in Oregon? I'm just happy Nike hasn't had a bunch of hay bales brought into the infield of Hayward Field and made a 12-loop course out of it.
Id say the majority of athletes over the years look forward to competing in Portland. In their minds, they are focused on qualifying and being in the meet, not the conditions. They already know it could be a quagmire and actually look forward to it. Look at their faces a few minutes after the race is over. Its about the experience. Nobody qualifies, looks at the forecast and then decides they arent going.
Think about whats going through their minds today and the next couple winter months transitioning to track prep. Nobody is thinking, damn, sure wish I could have set a PR time in that race. More likely, thank you God for giving me the strength and opportunity to participate in a dream that became a reality. I did my best on that day in those conditions and I wouldnt trade it for the world, win or lose. IF you ran there and you feel ripped off, I feel bad for you. You missed the point of all the focused effort to get there.
You are incorrect. Many of the boys were upset about the course and their results yesterday. 9
Duh - kids that underperformed will invariably point to conditions as it's low hanging fruit. It's human nature.
The top teams and individuals on both sides almost never run in mud and rain.
The top teams and individuals on both sides almost never run in cold.
The top teams and individuals on both sides rarely run in spikes.
Championship meets are meat grinders, and often the strategies that work against lesser competition don't work against the best. Strategies must be flexible, the competition must be respected, and the conditions must be taken into account. The margin for error is very small at this level...
Footlocker has existed since the late 1970s. Nike butted in with the bigger name and money, and has really diluted Footlocker unfortunately. Shame Sadie E and Rylee Blade nit running Dec 14 FL in SD where they both live in So Cal. Hope Chiara Daly wins. NXN really ruined it. Footlocker a better course and way better weather!
FL champions still outperform NXN post High School.
Cole Hocker, Grant Fisher and Edward Cheserek have more NCAA championships and Olympic Medals, ARs, than..... well, basically only Nico Young who has 2x indoor NCAA championships and that's it.
In fact, NXN champs on the boys side seem to cursed.
As far as courses go, they've both attained iconic status and shouldn't be changed. Over the years of watching, each course has instantly recognizable features that are great to watch either in person or on TV. Portland offers more weather variations but it's a true xc challenge, both as a course and as a team event. FL course has hills and downhill and only 40 very fast runners making it extreme exciting to watch.
They've both become classic events and their respective courses should stay put. ...I'm personally glad NXN has returned to full status following the contrived, too fast (flat and short) Runninglane event!
Footlocker has existed since the late 1970s. Nike butted in with the bigger name and money, and has really diluted Footlocker unfortunately. Shame Sadie E and Rylee Blade nit running Dec 14 FL in SD where they both live in So Cal. Hope Chiara Daly wins. NXN really ruined it. Footlocker a better course and way better weather!
Nike "butted in" bc FL was too stubborn to incorporate teams. The market was screaming for it for DECADES and FL did nothing. XC is a team sport. Having the sports championship race NOT be a team championship was absolute lunacy - TFG for Nike putting some life into our sport.
Outside a few pockets, HS kids these days hardly even know what FL is.
People were falling down. That is just dumb. I would prefer that they move the meet. There are no plans to do it.
So don't fall... That is a skill you need to learn for conditions like this. At 1 of my races I fell and had to spend like the next minute wiping mud out of my eyes mid race. Athletes(specifically cali) have to learn how to run in non road races.
Unpopular opinion: NXN is a fake national championship.
Racing on a soggy, slippery, muddy course in a freezing downpour year after year, the winners are often the guy or gal who slipped, slid, and fell the least. When 75% of the competitors are unfamiliar with such bizarre conditions, you are usually not crowning the true best individuals and teams.
It’s like holding a world chess championship and suddenly requiring everyone to play blindfolded.
Like that fake European XC event over the weekend! It was wet and muddy, too. I don’t see why they can’t move it to Irvine, CA so Jakob can go super fast on dry soccer fields. Measure it 7.8K but call it 8K so fan boys can gush over the fast times on LRC!
What a pathetic lot of hobby joggers, JV scrubs, and frustrated high school coaches this place has become!
No. Tough conditions are what cross country is all about. Fitness prevails in tough conditions. If you can't handle mud, train more.
Cross country isn’t about slipping, sliding, and falling in mud lol.. it’s honestly a bit dangerous. These kids work their asses off to get to NXN they really shouldn’t have to worry about these factors. Look at the footlocker race in 2000.. that is what I think of when it comes to a good and competitive xc course. We don’t need outside factors such as unlucky slips and falls involved in these races other than simply who is the best runner/team on that day.
Cross Country is not about PRs or speed, it is about placement and aerobic fitness. Muddy and hilly courses make it more similar to 10k races in that the aerobic fitness matters so much more, which is fine because Cross Country around the world and for all ages is based on aerobic fitness.
As for slipping, all of these athletes were given the same gear, race in the same conditions, and have the same opportunity to move to the front if they want a lower chance of slipping. It is unfortunate that slipping can be the cause of losing a race, but that's part the mental aspect.
I personally want Nike to start adding hay bales back to the course like they did in 2012 (go watch a recap of that to see how Cross Country courses should be), or how the rest of the world does it with sand traps, hay bales, and other random obstacles. Cross Country shouldn't be about times or splits, it should be about who's trained the best, is grittiest, and can mentally adapt to the conditions.
If you want to run fast you have track season, if you want to really show the mental strength of running run Cross Country
The NXN meet is held in a constantly water-logged golf course in the rain. Move the meet to a location where the course and weather won't be too much of a factor and hurts these kids who work their butts off for the dream of performing well. It makes it incredibly hard to gauge one's long distance endurance fitness.
My suggestions:
1. Eagle Island, ID
2. Woodward Park, CA
3. WakeMed Soccer Park, NC
4. Bear Branch Park, TX
5. Badlands Park, CA
How do we contact Rich Gonzalez or anyone on the NXN Management team?
I’m not going to wade through the entire thread to see if someone already mentioned this or not.
It’s XC. Everyone is running in the same race, same course, same conditions, etc. Times don’t matter. But speaking of times, they really were not that bad. What is it that you’re looking for, exactly? A track on grass and guys running 14:30s? There’s a sport for that and it’s in the spring. Let’s keep XC XC.
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