Correct there's zero doping record re estevez. But...check his record pre and post 2000 when EPO testing came in, and his age at 2000 and what we know about some Spanish runners of that era and others of his coaching group.
He was also ferociously talented and extremely well coached. I don't think he'd cheat as a 48 y.o marathon runner. He has no comparable incentive. I had reliable source to indicate that at his peak years he was earning c $250k pa all told.
I've spoken with him (Reyes Estevez) via Instagram and he seems like a sincere, serious dude despite his image of being a playboy. I don't think he's ever cheated, but of course I can't prove that and nor can anyone else. He trains more like a triathlete and gym rat than long distance runner. Focuses on muscle strength and development. Built like a middle weight boxer. Monster!
I agree with you too. My instincts tell me Reyes. Translated as King in English, is clean. It’s unlikely the accolade of worlds fastest masters runner is enough to tempt him with dope.
"The law treats circumstantial and direct evidence equally, and fact finders are not given special direction when a trial depends entirely on circumstantial evidence. The question for the jury is whether the prosecution has proven the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." (Source: Law Manual guide)
Another facet with regard to this monster (Reyes E.) is that he has had such a long career spanning 25 years which indicates that he might in fact be squeaky clean because research demonstrates that taking different pharmaceutical drugs has a deleterious effect on one's physical shape long-term which directly contradicts the magnificent physical state this monster finds himself in at this time.
So we can have reasonable doubt that he is clean?
There have been multiple scientific peer-reviewed studies that have found that EPO actually has anti-aging benefits.
Doping apologism belongs to rekrunner. But El G, Salah Hissou and Reyes Estevez are clean as an angel!! If Reyes were dirty he would have won Sydney and Athens 1500m, and all the world champs outdoors and indoors from 1997-2004. El G would have come in behind him.
Doping apologism belongs to rekrunner. But El G, Salah Hissou and Reyes Estevez are clean as an angel!! If Reyes were dirty he would have won Sydney and Athens 1500m, and all the world champs outdoors and indoors from 1997-2004. El G would have come in behind him.
you are wrong on this Coevett.
I do not apologize for doping.
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
Doping apologism belongs to rekrunner. But El G, Salah Hissou and Reyes Estevez are clean as an angel!! If Reyes were dirty he would have won Sydney and Athens 1500m, and all the world champs outdoors and indoors from 1997-2004. El G would have come in behind him.
you are wrong on this Coevett.
I do not apologize for doping.
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
I think your most shameful doping apologism was when you vigerously defended the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Jens Peter-Herold after I revealed (first time in English online) he had been convicted in re-unified Germany of pressurizing a 13-year-old female athlete to take illegal supplements to improve her performance.
Oh no, on second thoughts, it was probably when you defended Pineda when a young Eritrean runner under his management died mysteriously in hospital, the day after the 'Swedish' European xcountry junior champion was busted for EPO, also under Pineda's management.
Doping apologism belongs to rekrunner. But El G, Salah Hissou and Reyes Estevez are clean as an angel!! If Reyes were dirty he would have won Sydney and Athens 1500m, and all the world champs outdoors and indoors from 1997-2004. El G would have come in behind him.
you are wrong on this Coevett.
I do not apologize for doping.
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
Rekrunner you and Ghost seem to believe everyone is clean. Armstrong seems to believe everyone is doping. Coevett well, he sort of picks and chooses. Yes this is painting with a broad brush but this is what one sees.
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
Rekrunner you and Ghost seem to believe everyone is clean. Armstrong seems to believe everyone is doping. Coevett well, he sort of picks and chooses. Yes this is painting with a broad brush but this is what one sees.
Good morning: I don't believe everybody is clean but I do regret the sentiment from many that as soon as an elite athlete posts an outstanding time it is assumed that he doped to achieve that performance. This is especially the case, in people's minds, with regard to North African runners, Spanish runners and other foreigners from diverse nations. Most western developed nation runners (UK, Australia, N.Z., etc) escape this scrutiny. A form of prejudice you might say.
We all remember the Irish runner many years ago who improved from 30 minutes to 27:30 in the 10,000 meters who was found guilty of using EPO. This came as a shock to many. If this runner had not been so careless in using the postal service to obtain this product he might have escaped the clutches of the authorities for a longer period of time. In addition, EPO testing was less sophisticated at the time. Said runner guilty of EPO is now a very successful solicitor in the Cork, Munster region of Ireland. Kudos to him for putting his hands up and admitting his guilt straight away after being found out. He tried a comeback after his time away from the sport was paid for, but he faced such vitriol and bad vibes that he knocked it on the head and gave up athletics completely.
In the case of Reyes Estevez, Catalan monster, 2:16:26, age 48, he is showing the positive effect of devoting a significant amount of time to strength training including lifting heavy weights in the gym, and cross training, including cycling and swimming in his training regimen, slowing down the effect of aging and maintaining his overall physical and muscle strength.
The irony of the above is that Reyes Estevez is not even devoting all his time to living and training like a marathon runner, and if he did in fact train more like a professional marathon runner, over a longer period of time, I believe he would be closer to 2:10:00 and possibly achieve a time of around 2:12:00 at this time in his career.
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
I think your most shameful doping apologism was when you vigerously defended the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Jens Peter-Herold after I revealed (firsttime in Englishonline) he had been convicted in re-unified Germany of pressurizing a 13-year-old female athlete to take illegal supplements to improve her performance.
Oh no, on second thoughts, it was probably when you defended Pineda when a young Eritrean runner under his management died mysteriously in hospital, the day after the 'Swedish' European xcountry junior champion was busted for EPO, also under Pineda's management.
I think your most shameful doping apologism was when you vigerously defended the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Jens Peter-Herold after I revealed (first time in English online) he had been convicted in re-unified Germany of pressurizing a 13-year-old female athlete to take illegal supplements to improve her performance.
Oh no, on second thoughts, it was probably when you defended Pineda when a young Eritrean runner under his management died mysteriously in hospital, the day after the 'Swedish' European xcountry junior champion was busted for EPO, also under Pineda's management.
This again? I must have corrected you a dozen times by now. What happens is that I fact-checked you with your own sources, while simultaneously condemning the doping, and you construe that as a shameful defense of doping.
Contrary to a vigorous defense, I agreed with the German court conviction of the East German coach (Bernd Dießner). What happened was you said "potentially lethal PEDs", and I fact-checked you with your own article which said "were not doping substances", and did not say "performance enhancing" nor "potentially lethal".
Regarding Juan Pineda, can we start from a common basis of facts? Again, I found it tragic that the 22-year old Ethiopian Abadi Hadis died from illness, like any young person who dies prematurely, and I condemned the Swedish-Eritrean athlete Robel Fsiha for his doping. But what exactly did Pineda do here, besides manage athletes, and what did I do that makes you think "shameful doping apologism"? If Pineda actually doped athletes, I would condemn it, but here he it looks like you want to find him guilty by association.
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
Rekrunner you and Ghost seem to believe everyone is clean. Armstrong seems to believe everyone is doping. Coevett well, he sort of picks and chooses. Yes this is painting with a broad brush but this is what one sees.
That looks more like abstract art.
I cannot help what people see beyond my efforts to express myself. Contrary to what it seems, I believe that some athletes do dope. These include fast, medium, and slow athletes. I also believe clean athletes can be fast, medium, or slow and that we cannot work backwards from any fast performance to decide whether it is doped or clean.
My main doubts are about how doping impacts performance. In all cases, I try to follow the known facts, rather than popular suspicion.
I think your most shameful doping apologism was when you vigerously defended the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Jens Peter-Herold after I revealed (first time in English online) he had been convicted in re-unified Germany of pressurizing a 13-year-old female athlete to take illegal supplements to improve her performance.
Oh no, on second thoughts, it was probably when you defended Pineda when a young Eritrean runner under his management died mysteriously in hospital, the day after the 'Swedish' European xcountry junior champion was busted for EPO, also under Pineda's management.
This again? I must have corrected you a dozen times by now. What happens is that I fact-checked you with your own sources, while simultaneously condemning the doping, and you construe that as a shameful defense of doping.
Contrary to a vigorous defense, I agreed with the German court conviction of the East German coach (Bernd Dießner). What happened was you said "potentially lethal PEDs", and I fact-checked you with your own article which said "were not doping substances", and did not say "performance enhancing" nor "potentially lethal".
Regarding Juan Pineda, can we start from a common basis of facts? Again, I found it tragic that the 22-year old Ethiopian Abadi Hadis died from illness, like any young person who dies prematurely, and I condemned the Swedish-Eritrean athlete Robel Fsiha for his doping. But what exactly did Pineda do here, besides manage athletes, and what did I do that makes you think "shameful doping apologism"? If Pineda actually doped athletes, I would condemn it, but here he it looks like you want to find him guilty by association.
They are illegal in Germany because they are potentially lethal. One of the articles I brought up did mention this. He was clearly giving her the supplements to improve her performance, supplements that are illegal in Germany. Your quibbling over this minor point just serves/served to derail the importance of the fact that the coach of Beyer and Straub pressurized a 13 year old athlete to consume illegal supplements in the belief it would improve her performance. Any non-doping apologist would appreciate that.
As for Pineda, you are defending the indefensible again. Two young athletes, one busted and the other dying mysteriously over 48 hours with the same shady manager who had already been widely accused on this forum of being a front for Jama Aden, and you want to 'stick to the facts'. You're the guy who thinks a LetsRun poll in 2007 proves that El G was clean, and that EPO has been proven not to work by the fact that the Bylo-Russian marathon times only improved a little over Soviet times.
And the only guy who supports you is pretty much the Hoady freak. Look in the mirror at yourself Rekrunner.
BTW, you ridiculously complain about being called a doping apologist when you've posted over a million words here (literally) posting stuff like the above. Yet you regularly join in the bullying and slandering of myself as a 'racist' by the likes of Hoady (somebody who believes with a religious fervor that East Africans are more efficient because they 'require less energy').
This post was edited 34 seconds after it was posted.
They are illegal in Germany because they are potentially lethal. One of the articles I brought up did mention this. He was clearly giving her the supplements to improve her performance, supplements that are illegal in Germany. Your quibbling over this minor point just serves/served to derail the importance of the fact that the coach of Beyer and Straub pressurized a 13 year old athlete to consume illegal supplements in the belief it would improve her performance. Any non-doping apologist would appreciate that.
As for Pineda, you are defending the indefensible again. Two young athletes, one busted and the other dying mysteriously over 48 hours with the same shady manager who had already been widely accused on this forum of being a front for Jama Aden, and you want to 'stick to the facts'. You're the guy who thinks a LetsRun poll in 2007 proves that El G was clean, and that EPO has been proven not to work by the fact that the Bylo-Russian marathon times only improved a little over Soviet times.
And the only guy who supports you is pretty much the Hoady freak. Look in the mirror at yourself Rekrunner.
BTW, you ridiculously complain about being called a doping apologist when you've posted over a million words here (literally) posting stuff like the above. Yet you regularly join in the bullying and slandering of myself as a 'racist' by the likes of Hoady (somebody who believes with a religious fervor that East Africans are more efficient because they 'require less energy').
Some more fact checking:
- Again, I did not defend Bernd Dießner's abusive acts, neither then nor now.
- I only saw you provide one article in German, which said none of those things you said then, or say now.
- Like every "non-doping apologist", my only response regarding the coach was to appreciate that he was rightfully tried and convicted by the German courts.
- As for Pineda, again, I still don't know what he is alleged guilty of, beyond association. Was he connected to the death of one athlete, and the doping of another? Here you provided no articles, and I just see you pointing fingers.
- I don't think a Letsrun poll from 2014 "proved" El G's records were clean, just that 43% of poll respondents believed they were, in 2014. It wasn't quite 50-50 then, with about 4 out of 9 respondents believing they were clean. That percentage has since evolved in a new letsrun poll in 2023 (26% clean; 74% dirty).
- I don't claim that EPO has been proven not to work (indeed, I think altitude training which stimulates EPO naturally, works), but often asked for the "proofs" that it does work for elites running fast performances in competitions, and wondered why sea-level non-Africans globally comparatively underperformed during nearly three decades of the EPO era.
- If my millions of words here are literally like this, i.e. not apologizing for Bernd Deißner, and wondering how, or if, Juan Pineda is connected to doping, and these are the best most shameful examples you can think of, then you don't make a very strong case that I am a doping apologist.
There is absolutely nothing in any claim made here that shows a runner today is clean. To argue they are is merely opinion. The fact remains it is just as likely, if not more so, that any given runner isn't. That is the sport now.
You're talking about Cathal Lombard. I was in Ireland shortly after he had his big "breakthrough." I bought an issue of Irish Runner that had him on the cover and did a big feature article about him and how he'd managed such a massive improvement. He said he'd dropped his mileage from about 100 a week to 60 and cut back his hours at work so he was much fresher and rested. And he talked about getting some sort of board that he used in his driveway to do exercises on. I'm not sure what you think came as a shock to many. After reading the article I immediately thought "Yeah, he's doing all that stuff AND he's taking EPO."
When he came back to racing after his suspension the first thing he did was win the Irish national cross country championship. That was a performance that was well above what he could have done before he took EPO and it again raised questions about the legitimacy of the performance. One question was whether he was still taking EPO and during his suspension and figured how to do it and not get caught. Another question was if there were real long term benefits to taking it which persisted for the length of his suspension and beyond. We may have differing opinions as to whether the "vitriol" he faced when he came back was justified or not but I think it was clear that if he'd gone back to turning in the kinds of performances from before he used EPO, 14:00/30:00ish times, he might have been fairly easily accepted. But if he was going to continue turning in performances more in line with his EPO induced ones he was going to face very harsh scrutiny.
On another note, when you say Reyes is not even devoting all his time to living and training like a professioanl marathoner do you mean he has a job?
Doping apologism belongs to rekrunner. But El G, Salah Hissou and Reyes Estevez are clean as an angel!! If Reyes were dirty he would have won Sydney and Athens 1500m, and all the world champs outdoors and indoors from 1997-2004. El G would have come in behind him.
you are wrong on this Coevett.
I do not apologize for doping.
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
I followed your instruction to not call you rekbot so not sure how I am attacking you? I however retain my belief that Coevett and Armstrongliv and Khamis are both right about you being a doping apologist. It’s 3 against 1 so I go with the majority this time. Including me it’s now 4 on 1!
you need to demonstrate to us that you have the ability to draw conclusions front scanty data! I’m sorry rekrunner!
Please aspire to "espouse moral purity in word and deed". You can do much better than propogate falsehoods based on "scant information". There is no call for your unprovoked personal attack.
I think your most shameful doping apologism was when you vigerously defended the coach of Beyer, Straub, and Jens Peter-Herold after I revealed (first time in English online) he had been convicted in re-unified Germany of pressurizing a 13-year-old female athlete to take illegal supplements to improve her performance.
Oh no, on second thoughts, it was probably when you defended Pineda when a young Eritrean runner under his management died mysteriously in hospital, the day after the 'Swedish' European xcountry junior champion was busted for EPO, also under Pineda's management.
Very good analysis there good Coevett. Keep up the good work. Yes more athletes than we know die young and mysteriously simultaneously with doping busts or doping association in space and time! I recall a healthy athlete suddenly passing away after coming under the wing of a highly suspicious doping drugnet!
Rekrunner you and Ghost seem to believe everyone is clean. Armstrong seems to believe everyone is doping. Coevett well, he sort of picks and chooses. Yes this is painting with a broad brush but this is what one sees.
Good morning: I don't believe everybody is clean but I do regret the sentiment from many that as soon as an elite athlete posts an outstanding time it is assumed that he doped to achieve that performance. This is especially the case, in people's minds, with regard to North African runners, Spanish runners and other foreigners from diverse nations. Most western developed nation runners (UK, Australia, N.Z., etc) escape this scrutiny. A form of prejudice you might say.
We all remember the Irish runner many years ago who improved from 30 minutes to 27:30 in the 10,000 meters who was found guilty of using EPO. This came as a shock to many. If this runner had not been so careless in using the postal service to obtain this product he might have escaped the clutches of the authorities for a longer period of time. In addition, EPO testing was less sophisticated at the time. Said runner guilty of EPO is now a very successful solicitor in the Cork, Munster region of Ireland. Kudos to him for putting his hands up and admitting his guilt straight away after being found out. He tried a comeback after his time away from the sport was paid for, but he faced such vitriol and bad vibes that he knocked it on the head and gave up athletics completely.
In the case of Reyes Estevez, Catalan monster, 2:16:26, age 48, he is showing the positive effect of devoting a significant amount of time to strength training including lifting heavy weights in the gym, and cross training, including cycling and swimming in his training regimen, slowing down the effect of aging and maintaining his overall physical and muscle strength.
The irony of the above is that Reyes Estevez is not even devoting all his time to living and training like a marathon runner, and if he did in fact train more like a professional marathon runner, over a longer period of time, I believe he would be closer to 2:10:00 and possibly achieve a time of around 2:12:00 at this time in his career.
Very good post. I think Reyes can go faster because Bekele at 42 is still running 2:04. At 48 he would still be under 2:10 for sure, maybe still 2:07!