It doesn’t matter at all if they can run 2:06. Mantz was 8th and Young was 8th at the Olympics. Mantz was 6th and Young was 7th at New York. Mantz was 1st and Young was 2nd at the US Trials.
Simbassa was 11th at US trials and 17th at Valencia. A time on a fast course means nothing.
Well it does mean something actually. This isnt XC. Times matter somewhat in marathoning. Ssss is right, no reason to think either can break 2:06. And Mantz and Young would've been like 26 and 28th at the Olympics if Oly marathon actually included all the best E African and Japanese runners.
If Galen Rupp ran Valencia in his marathon prime with superior shoes he could have the AR. If Ches was an American citizen he would have it now. Rupp and Ches are/were superior athletes to Young and Mantz...Ryan Hall would've broken 2:04 with modern shoes.
Young and Mantz are our top guys for now though. Hopefully Nico Young takes up marathoning in his prime. I think he could be the AR holder if he does.
I don’t even think that high. Last year, when Mantz ran 2:07:47, he was ranked 161st in the world.
Hes definitely not cracking the top 100 in an everyone there race
I agree. We are waiting for a "breakthrough" in American marathoning. These guys could be the next big thing, but for right now, they are still slower than Hall and Rupp.
I am all for athletes getting paid (and I bet they would get nothing from the Valencia organizers), but at some point this generation has got to stop running 2:08-2:09 if they want us to to stay interested.
Don't you think their shoe sponsors would pay a big bonus for a sub-2:06? Maybe that is the motivation they need?
Maybe they should run faster than 2:09 before we decide they can run faster than 2:09.
But as an empiricist, you have to acknowledge "variables" when you are running an experiment.
You will admit that someone who runs 2:09 on an hilly course (like Paris) could run faster on a flat course (like Chicago), right? And even faster on a downhill course (like CIM)?
Empiricism in science doesn't mean ignoring the variables when making your next hypothesis.
We gotta move on from this era of chasing flat courses and fast times over competition. Watch the Chicago Marathon on tv then watch the NYC Marathon. Chicago isn't even a race, it's two dozen different time trials with pacers. Racing is so much more interesting and exciting. It's all Nike and Kipchoge's fault, and I'm ready to get back to watching the sport of foot racing personally.
But they can't run 2:06, which is why they didn't Valencia. NYC is a harder course and it was closer to the olympics so it gave them another excuse for running slow
Simbassa was 11th at the US Olympic trials. There is no real reason to believe he is a better runner than Mantz or Young.
He’s run faster. Maybe he had a bad race at the Olympic Trials.
I remember when I was in high school, me and this kid raced in the 1600m. I won and he was 3rd. We both ran personal bests.
A month later, he continued to PR and won state.
He almost made the Olympics later.
Just because Mantz beat Simbassa then, does not mean he’s better than him now.
It doesn’t matter at all if they can run 2:06. Mantz was 8th and Young was 8th at the Olympics. Mantz was 6th and Young was 7th at New York. Mantz was 1st and Young was 2nd at the US Trials.
Simbassa was 11th at US trials and 17th at Valencia. A time on a fast course means nothing.
Well it does mean something actually. This isnt XC. Times matter somewhat in marathoning. Ssss is right, no reason to think either can break 2:06. And Mantz and Young would've been like 26 and 28th at the Olympics if Oly marathon actually included all the best E African and Japanese runners.
If Galen Rupp ran Valencia in his marathon prime with superior shoes he could have the AR. If Ches was an American citizen he would have it now. Rupp and Ches are/were superior athletes to Young and Mantz...Ryan Hall would've broken 2:04 with modern shoes.
Young and Mantz are our top guys for now though. Hopefully Nico Young takes up marathoning in his prime. I think he could be the AR holder if he does.
Like Lopes, Rupp, Shorter and Salazar, Young doesn’t need to leave the track to run marathons. The Fall after a track season, would be the perfect time for him to give the marathon a shot.
I agree. We are waiting for a "breakthrough" in American marathoning. These guys could be the next big thing, but for right now, they are still slower than Hall and Rupp.
I am all for athletes getting paid (and I bet they would get nothing from the Valencia organizers), but at some point this generation has got to stop running 2:08-2:09 if they want us to to stay interested.
Don't you think their shoe sponsors would pay a big bonus for a sub-2:06? Maybe that is the motivation they need?
No, their shoe sponsors won’t pay a big bonus for a sub-2:06. They’ll pay for WR, AR, and Olympics. Maybe WCs. But more importantly, they will continue to sponsor athletes who bring them exposure. That is exactly what Mantz and Young did by running NYC. Far more exposure than a 2:06 would have brought if run in a marathon on another continent that the average fan doesn’t even know exists yet. Mantz and Young are US athletes paid to attract US shoe buyers. They do that by finishing well in US races.
I rewatched the Olympics marathon on the treadmill today. 15 and blowing snow here in Wisco.
Remarkable that they were both beaten by Emile Caresse and Akisani (who had previously never run under 2:09). Even more remarkable that Yaseen Abdalla, who had never run a marathon and had essentially no break between the race and NCAA Champs was nipping on their heels.
But, those jolly joggers practically kissed one another crossing the line. Eyestone must about lose his mind with their antics. I get they are far and away the best we have, but it seems to be no guts, all glory for those two.
Mantz is a baller, but I don't think he goes nearly as hard in marathons as he can. His goal seems to be to beat Young, not beat anyone else, or run any harder.
I agree. We are waiting for a "breakthrough" in American marathoning. These guys could be the next big thing, but for right now, they are still slower than Hall and Rupp.
I am all for athletes getting paid (and I bet they would get nothing from the Valencia organizers), but at some point this generation has got to stop running 2:08-2:09 if they want us to to stay interested.
Don't you think their shoe sponsors would pay a big bonus for a sub-2:06? Maybe that is the motivation they need?
No, their shoe sponsors won’t pay a big bonus for a sub-2:06. They’ll pay for WR, AR, and Olympics. Maybe WCs. But more importantly, they will continue to sponsor athletes who bring them exposure. That is exactly what Mantz and Young did by running NYC. Far more exposure than a 2:06 would have brought if run in a marathon on another continent that the average fan doesn’t even know exists yet. Mantz and Young are US athletes paid to attract US shoe buyers. They do that by finishing well in US races.
I know a couple pro's who have time bonuses in their contracts. They will get bonuses for sub 2:06.
Wow guy posts the obvious which is that those clowns can't run sub 2:06 and gets downvoted??? What happened to LR? Have you guys really lost it or what? LOL
No, their shoe sponsors won’t pay a big bonus for a sub-2:06. They’ll pay for WR, AR, and Olympics. Maybe WCs. But more importantly, they will continue to sponsor athletes who bring them exposure. That is exactly what Mantz and Young did by running NYC. Far more exposure than a 2:06 would have brought if run in a marathon on another continent that the average fan doesn’t even know exists yet. Mantz and Young are US athletes paid to attract US shoe buyers. They do that by finishing well in US races.
I know a couple pro's who have time bonuses in their contracts. They will get bonuses for sub 2:06.
Do you have any idea how the size of their potential bonuses compare to how much appearance money they got for running New York? I'm betting no as the size of appearance deals is usually a deeply guarded secret but maybe you do. But even if the bonus amount is bigger than the NYC appearance number the latter is guaranteed no matter the result and to get that sub 2:06 bonus they'd actually have to run sub 2:06.
They came into Paris with the wrong plan. They thought 2:08 would win. They expected to run down a bunch of guys after the hill. Once they had no one to chase there was no point to trashing their legs to squeeze it out an extra few seconds against the clock. So they jogged it in.
Eyestone is awesome but I don't think his tactics are thest best marathon ones against the fields they run when they are against the world's best. Waiting for guys who are micro dosing epo and all the rest to fall apart is probably not going to work anymore. Eyestone is basically winning the races like it's XC scoring. He's got the best score of his two racers crossing the line, but they aren't racing for team points but the podium.
Against the fields they are running they probably need to make a move earlier. Half way in drop a fast mile and settle in, then drop another fast one just as the pack starts pulling them back in and see if they can keep the pack away?
The big appearance money (and bonuses) comes with having “Olympian” attached to your name. There is no question NYC was by far the best financial decision those guys could have made, especially in the fall right after Paris. After the Trials and top 10 in Paris, there stock was at an all time high in NYC.
Remarkable that they were both beaten by Emile Caresse and Akisani (who had previously never run under 2:09). Even more remarkable that Yaseen Abdalla, who had never run a marathon and had essentially no break between the race and NCAA Champs was nipping on their heels.
3 to 3 1/2 mins is nipping on their heels?
The stupidity on this board is always stretching for new heights.
The big appearance money (and bonuses) comes with having “Olympian” attached to your name. There is no question NYC was by far the best financial decision those guys could have made, especially in the fall right after Paris. After the Trials and top 10 in Paris, there stock was at an all time high in NYC.
Best of both worlds is to run Chicago next year. American appearance fee and to run fast.
The world is only the USA, are there any other countries?
The USA marathon scene and races are all b level but pay a level money for American athletes and why they rarely travel and compete against the worlds best.
You have got to wonder why on the world stage at marathon running the US are the also runs and over a mile behind the leaders.
This will not change until they accept they need to run events other than Boston, New York or Chicago.
The US women at better for this but as men are only important you see why they all fail
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