What if the full mile was instead contested in place of what is now the 1500M?

1500vsmile · 2024-11-17T17:03:30-05:00

Would El G's 3:43.13 still stand?The 1500m vs. Mile debate, as we all know, has been an argument for decades. One is metrically sound, another is a special tradition. Historically, the 1500M has been around for centuries. It was what the mile was changed to after the track & field world shifted from yards to meters.But, what if we had never made the change? Every global championship, every Olympics... what if we stuck with the old chap, just for the sake of tradition, and the 1500m was just an afterthought? Would we see more impressive WR's? Maybe even under 3:40? How would it affect events longer than 1500M? Would the 3k remain the same, or have that converted to a 2 mile as well?

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1 year ago 11/19/2024 8:44pm EST

re: Ypm

Ypm wrote:
This discussion doesn't make much sense to me as you're asking if the mile was contested over the 1500m, would the mile record have fallen by now....Yet you're forgetting that the 1500m HAS been contested as the standard for so many years now and that record is still standing. So no El G's 3:43.13 would not have been broken by now. Maybe Lagat, Kiprop or Jakob would have gotten close to breaking it, but they would have been off my about .2 or so. Conversions don't matter, I'm just looking at actual race data where many people have tried to break his 1500 record and all have failed. It would have been the same for the mile; the record is just too good.
I do, however, believe both of these records will be broken in the next 5 years.

It’s entirely reasonable and probably correct that El G would still be the mile WR holder, but the WR wouldn’t be 3:43.13. Your post seems to assume that 3:26.00 and 3:43.13 are of identical quality since the same man ran both times. Taken to the extreme you’d be assuming that Lagat was only good for 3:47, Makhloufi 3:52, Farah 3:56, etc.

For decades, athletes have made more concerted attempts at the 1500 than the mile; for decades most of the world has considered the 1500 WR the more prestigious, serious target. Therefore most elites have 1500 PBs that are stronger than their mile PB.

Even if you don’t believe anyone but El G would have run faster than 3:43.13, it’s not on account of your logic exactly.

I think most likely, El G would have run ~3:42.5 and Jakob would have run ~3:43.0 by now. (3:43.00 is 3:27.85 1500 pace…plenty fast). I’m not sure there would be any men between them on the all time list, but Lagat on the day he ran 3:26.34 would have had a chance (the only other guy between them at 1500 is Asbel Kiprop, just 0.04 faster than Jakob, and the extra distance to the mile strongly favors Jakob).

1 year ago 11/19/2024 10:14pm EST

re: Man Moth

Man Moth wrote:
wrooooooong wrote:
How is 1500m "metrically sound?" Do they race 5500m, 10,500m?
The "metric mile" is the 1000m. That's what a mile is, 1000 paces. The Romans invented it and then the backward primitives of medieval Europe screwed it all up.
You want a distance close to the English mile on a metric track, go 1600m. 4 laps. No special start lines needed.
1. No, but 1500m is 30% of the length of 5,000m, and 15% of the length of 10,000m. That's the beauty of the metric system, it's just percentages.
2. As many people have stated over and over when this discussion comes up, starting on a bend would be carnage. Unless you want to reduce the field size to 8, and start in lanes, then starting on a straight is far more practical.

your post is 100% dumb

1 year ago 11/19/2024 10:17pm EST

re: lonjacksss

lonjacksss wrote:
new records
9.50 100
18,84 200
42.6 400
138.8 800m
mile 338
5000 1224
10000 2540
thon 1:57
the first 3, Bolt could run
the 800 the right guy hasnt run it yet. the top 3 guys coe kip, rus were 139m capable
the 5000 the norwegan isn't too far off with small improvement.
the 10k, bekele would not be too far off.
thon, a belele type guy with the shoes pacing and flat fast course
all reachable.

rojo make notes.

prediction back on 2008 ish was on the boards for the way to do the 2hr. marathon, and Nike ran the program to a T. where rojo enquired as if it was great sage work. when i think it is obvious.

the above lists rely on.

Bolt and his coach. they said they can hit those times.

All 3 800 men, Coe thought h could run the 139 in an interview.

Percy Cerutti in his book, postulated those kind of times.

Arch Jelley commented in conversation wondering why someone did not run 140 800? and that was in 1977.

Ask the athletes.

Arch Jelley is still alive and sharp at 100 years.

Rojo might interview Arch. and ask these questions.

1 year ago 11/19/2024 10:41pm EST

re: John Wesley Harding

John Wesley Harding wrote:
Ypm wrote:
This discussion doesn't make much sense to me as you're asking if the mile was contested over the 1500m, would the mile record have fallen by now....Yet you're forgetting that the 1500m HAS been contested as the standard for so many years now and that record is still standing. So no El G's 3:43.13 would not have been broken by now. Maybe Lagat, Kiprop or Jakob would have gotten close to breaking it, but they would have been off my about .2 or so. Conversions don't matter, I'm just looking at actual race data where many people have tried to break his 1500 record and all have failed. It would have been the same for the mile; the record is just too good.
I do, however, believe both of these records will be broken in the next 5 years.
It’s entirely reasonable and probably correct that El G would still be the mile WR holder, but the WR wouldn’t be 3:43.13. Your post seems to assume that 3:26.00 and 3:43.13 are of identical quality since the same man ran both times. Taken to the extreme you’d be assuming that Lagat was only good for 3:47, Makhloufi 3:52, Farah 3:56, etc.
For decades, athletes have made more concerted attempts at the 1500 than the mile; for decades most of the world has considered the 1500 WR the more prestigious, serious target. Therefore most elites have 1500 PBs that are stronger than their mile PB.
Even if you don’t believe anyone but El G would have run faster than 3:43.13, it’s not on account of your logic exactly.
I think most likely, El G would have run ~3:42.5 and Jakob would have run ~3:43.0 by now. (3:43.00 is 3:27.85 1500 pace…plenty fast). I’m not sure there would be any men between them on the all time list, but Lagat on the day he ran 3:26.34 would have had a chance (the only other guy between them at 1500 is Asbel Kiprop, just 0.04 faster than Jakob, and the extra distance to the mile strongly favors Jakob).

correct.

1 year ago 11/20/2024 12:15pm EST

re: Big Red

Big Red wrote:
So "identity crisis" never ran a mile race? Too bad! It's a cool distance.
I ran the mile in high school and college, '72-'78. I fell in love with the distance. Then in January '78, the Dartmouth Relays were one of the first meets in New England to go metric. I ran my first 1500, and won my heat (OK so it was the slow heat.)
I was pretty excited to win, but was confused by my splits (which were in yards) of 62, 2:06, 3:13, and the finish in 4:04.9. Seemed like a REALLY SLOW final 300!
It was a week later that Coach noted, "The officials stated the 1500 at the wrong mark, all 3 heats ran extra distance."
Thus, it was not my first 1500 at all! More like my first (and one and only) 1525, more or less...

Nope. Only ran 800 in high school. In college, I ran the 800 and 5000 occasionally, but the 1500 at every meet. Don't know if it was team needs or if coach thought that was my ideal distance, but I ran with it.

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