Being 16 or 17 would be fine for freshman. They'd be there to develop into a top 7 runner over 4 years. Most underclassman know they aren't going to be in the big races at good programs.
But they won’t. The very likely scenario is that they will train 4-5 years and never compete for the school.
It's just a continuation and expansion of what's already been happening. There have been numerous examples of invited walk-ons who never pan out, not to mention scholarship recruits who never make varsity. For many of the top programs -- the Arkansases, Stanfords, LSUs, TAMUs, Wisconsins, Floridas, and Oregons of the world -- there could be a time when the rosters are primarily if not exclusively upperclassmen who have transferred in after developing into national caliber point scorers at lower profile programs. There will be the Rupp or Cranny type who gets on roster as a freshman, certainly.
Arkansas has always been doing this with regard to academic development, getting recruits on scholarship somewhere like Blinn JC to get around Prop 48 and then they transfer in after a couple semesters once they have a college GPA that passes muster. The necessity to prove English literacy to keep up with university coursework isn't that different from the necessity to show proof of athletic development to compete with the top 20 in your event group on a national level.
This probably benefits the lower profile programs, feeding them talent they wouldn't often have coming in. It could benefit the developmental types more, putting them in an environment that is less cutthroat/sink-or-swim as they adjust to college life. Maybe it excludes the walk-ons more at the lowest level programs, but that's probably also in their best interests.
Not sure if I saw this addressed, but one of the main reasons to limit roster spots (and thus walk-on spots) is that some programs were recruiting “walk-on” athletes using NIL money. This basically allowed teams a loop hole around scholarship limits.
Teams with resources could max out the scholarships and then continue to give NIL money to recruited walk-on athletes. Oregon could tap Nike $ and Arkansas could tap Walmart $.
As a former D1 walk-on, it is sad to see these changes. Like many walk-ons at large state schools, I made the decision first on academics and finances, choosing the school that offered the best academic scholarship out of HS and then pursued a spot as a walk-on.
Hopefully large club programs will develop to fill the gap at these schools.
Maybe he goes to Penn as a grad student. Who’s top 800 runner ran a 1:48.49 last year. Maybe he drops enough to qualify for D1 Nationals for a trip to Oregon.
There are a lot of different paths to D1
There are many paths to D1, but this is not one of them. Grad students can't compete at Ivy league schools.
kudos to this kid for broadcasting this potential problem..but omg this is listening to a hillybilly redneck bro speak a bunch of nothing sauce about an issue he doesnt comprehend LOL
I'm pretty sure this kid never ran in college, has no firm grasp of the variables at play. He's talking with a guy who has never qualified to nationals. It's the stupid leading the blind. I'd never listen to nor promote his pod.
Not sure if I saw this addressed, but one of the main reasons to limit roster spots (and thus walk-on spots) is that some programs were recruiting “walk-on” athletes using NIL money. This basically allowed teams a loop hole around scholarship limits.
Teams with resources could max out the scholarships and then continue to give NIL money to recruited walk-on athletes. Oregon could tap Nike $ and Arkansas could tap Walmart $.
As a former D1 walk-on, it is sad to see these changes. Like many walk-ons at large state schools, I made the decision first on academics and finances, choosing the school that offered the best academic scholarship out of HS and then pursued a spot as a walk-on.
Hopefully large club programs will develop to fill the gap at these schools.
Wouldn’t there also be an argument that conspiring to prevent kids getting paid NIL this way is an antitrust violation? Seems to me the free market wants to pay kids beyond overly restrictive small roster sizes and the big conferences are conspiring to stop it.
I'm pretty sure this kid never ran in college, has no firm grasp of the variables at play. He's talking with a guy who has never qualified to nationals. It's the stupid leading the blind. I'd never listen to nor promote his pod.
ya agreed. i was actually clowning on the ole miss athlete that's being interviewed. dude is a stoner bro the way he talks lol. seems clueless.
but ya im also not actually a fan of the podcast in general - the host is a 20 year old kid who moved to texas who didnt run competitively himself but is just a big fan of the sport it seems. smart kid from business perspective but he's overall not my cup of tea and seems to come off as trying to sound smarter than he actually is about some things. to each their own though, but i know lots of people enjoy his chat with guests. i did like the one he did with evan jager. didnt mean to plug the pod here, just found this 'interview' relevant to this thread's topic and i couldn't help but laugh at how dumb the athlete sounds
Just bring in 7 international student athletes on full scholarship and maybe add 2 local walk ons. That should cover most of your bases. Depending on how successful your recruiting is you could be placing very high at the NCAA XC Championships and possibly even the track championships.
Arkansas 2023 roster, 11 athletes finished 4th in the country. They will have to cut the 11th guy. Load up on internationals and transfers from other schools, young Americans will develop at lower tier programs with the exception of the truly elite, who can make an impact as freshman The P4 programs will be filled with people who are ready to race at a championship level the moment they step on campus.
With the XC roster limits coming for D1 Power 4 schools, does anybody have an educated guess how it will work to be a walk on? Such as, can runners beyond the roster limit still practice with the team or no?
Walk on just means no scholarship. Since the roster limits are smaller, there will be less people on the team. The school has their choice of how many scholarships to give to the athletes, it could be all of them or none of them. But in general, fewer people will be walk-ons because there are fewer spots. As someone said, club teams will get bigger/more competitive or D2/D3 will get more competitive.
the idea club teams grow and improve suggests the kids will stay in the D1 orbit and hope for next year. or resign themselves to attending that type school without varsity while still taking it seriously.
i think it has the opposite effect. short of "i want to go to State," the incentives for hanging around the minor team shrink if the majors roster shrinks and gets harder to make. the 31st guy when they take 30 is in a different position time and opportunitywise than if it's 17. the time moves up to 17th guy's plus portal impact. and the 30th kid who might have considered club sees a bigger gap to the team.
to me you have to badly want State or be obsessed with the dream. otherwise, if the dream is make varsity, everybody at athletic schools bumps down a notch. you then are either willing to play that level (and on those financial terms) or not.
Arkansas 2023 roster, 11 athletes finished 4th in the country. They will have to cut the 11th guy. Load up on internationals and transfers from other schools, young Americans will develop at lower tier programs with the exception of the truly elite, who can make an impact as freshman The P4 programs will be filled with people who are ready to race at a championship level the moment they step on campus.
I do agree with some of what you are saying. However, after speaking with an SEC coach this weekend, most do not understand that the SEC caps have an even greater impact on TF than was first thought. With a 10 athlete cap in CC any of these athletes that are brought over to compete on the TF side will count against the 35 cap for TF. So as a coach those that you bring over BETTER be able to score or you are wasting a roster spot. Additionally there are 40 events to be contested in TF - If you are not a conference event winner caliber (or can double up and score in another event) in the following events - HJ, PV, Hammer, JAV, DEC - you had better find another home. There will be some serious discussions going on with TF athletes of SEC teams as to their viability on future rosters. Gone are the days of fielding a complete TF team.
i am doubling down. put yourself back in your recruitment era. outside of some sort of affinity arrangement like BYU -- the bigtime mormon school many kids would attend anyway -- why is a kid going to run for the club team, having to fend for himself financially (a) for attending the school and (b) for whatever extra costs club running asks you to absorb. while the team runners get NIL. and enduring the daily snub of still being at the school that turned him down, not knowing if next year is any improvement? and be burning eligibility to not be varsity. in the transfer portal era.
not happening very often. you would have to be obsessed with State, almost clinically, to endure that sort of slight well. to literally pay to be taxi squaded knowing they will be recruiting and transferring kids next year.
common sense is you'd sign up for Tech down the street instead. where they are offering you a slot plus NIL. if State doesn't want me, i don't like State so much anymore. i am not going to sit in State's waiting room in case they change their mind or have a weak next recruiting class on accident. and it bears reminding that the roster limits don't just mean fewer slots but also carnage for the last ones, higher standards and lower odds to emerge. that and while track is a time sport, i (a) don't believe a lot of kids can take club and turn it into varsity level creds and (b) if it used to occasionally happen before, it will now be, ok, i need you to run that mile 5 seconds even faster just to be considered.
the school that might be able to dutifully gather eager affinity students willing to wait in line for a job that likely never appears, paying their own way and foregoing roster spots and NIL someplace else, will be mormons or military academy kids. the former BYU is unusual culturally. the latter are "already there anyway" at their unique 3 D1 schools.
With the roster caps, how are red shirts impacted? Does a red shirt take one of the 35 roster spots for T&F? If so, I don't see how they can keep red shirts.
What about injured athletes, do they take a roster spot? Many programs have 17 xc runners and struggle to find 7 healthy ones by conference. With 10 XC, they will have to prioritize, keeping them healthy.
kudos to this kid for broadcasting this potential problem..but omg this is listening to a hillybilly redneck bro speak a bunch of nothing sauce about an issue he doesnt comprehend LOL
He’s run just a 4:10 mile, no? With no real range outside of 1500-mile?
I'd guess that except if you're running like 14:00 5k or similar (maybe slightly worse for weaker schools), walk-ons are basically dead.
That being said, I'd recommend people to make school an academic decision first. If you're accepted to Stanford but can't run there? Except if you're accepted into let's say MIT and can run there, go there.
I'd guess that except if you're running like 14:00 5k or similar (maybe slightly worse for weaker schools), walk-ons are basically dead.
That being said, I'd recommend people to make school an academic decision first. If you're accepted to Stanford but can't run there? Except if you're accepted into let's say MIT and can run there, go there.
Though I'd say this is more of a tossup and pick which you'd like more as they're as strong academically. Basically, what I'm saying is don't pick an academically inferior school just to run at. I could potentially see a future nba top pick (e.g. Cooper Flagg) picking Duke instead of Stanford but obviously Duke is still a good school and future NBA earnings are far higher.
Most P4 schools will continue as is. They arent going to come up with hundreds of thousands of dollars of additional track or XC scholarships. An average P4 today puts 2-4 scholarships into distance and 8-10 into everything else. This won't change significantly. They may even cut back to make up for additional 20 in football.
