to even be in the all-around GOAT you need respectable 800 speed. Jakob cannot and could not ever run a sub 1:45 800.
The honor of all-around GOAT belongs to Augustine Choge, still the only man ever to break all the barriers of elitehood: 1:45, 3:30, 7:30, 13, and 60 second marathon. He'd easily run sub 27 if he gave a rip about that, but there's no incentive, other than to win this GOAT threads. As an actual elite he cares more about getting paid, and the 10,000 is economically dead and buried.
to even be in the all-around GOAT you need respectable 800 speed. Jakob cannot and could not ever run a sub 1:45 800.
The honor of all-around GOAT belongs to Augustine Choge, still the only man ever to break all the barriers of elitehood: 1:45, 3:30, 7:30, 13, and 60 second marathon. He'd easily run sub 27 if he gave a rip about that, but there's no incentive, other than to win this GOAT threads. As an actual elite he cares more about getting paid, and the 10,000 is economically dead and buried.
Choge had awesome range, too. Here's how he compares with Aouita in PBs, with the faster man in bold:
800: Aouita 1:43.86, Choge 1:44.86
1,000: Aouita 2:15.16, Choge 2:17.79
1500: Aouita 3:29.46, Choge 3:29.47
2,000: Aouita 4:50.81, Choge 4:56.30
3,000: Aouita 7:29.45, Choge 7:28.00
5,000: Aouita 12:58.39, Choge 12:53.66
10,000: Aouita 27:26.11, Choge 28:22.8
Half-Marathon: Aouita N/A, Choge 59:26
Aouita has the better set of PBs in my opinion, particularly when standing in one's era is considered. When Aouita ran 12:58, nobody else had ever run under 13:00. When Choge ran 12:53, the world record was 12:37, and his performance put him 18th on the all-time list. Choge didn't even win his race; he finished fourth.
When Aouita ran 7:29, nobody else had ever run under 7:32. When Choge ran 7:28, that was far off the world record of 7:20. That was another race Choge didn't win, and his performance still left him outside the top 10 on the all-time list.
When Choge ran his 59:26, that tied him for 45th on the all-time list. The world record was over a minute faster.
Choge never broke a world record. Aouita held world records from 1500 to 5,000, simultaneously.
Then there's the matter of medals. Choge never medaled in the Olympics nor outdoor world track championships. That doesn't compare to someone who medaled in the 800, 1500, and 5,000.
The honor of all-around GOAT belongs to Augustine Choge, still the only man ever to break all the barriers of elitehood: 1:45, 3:30, 7:30, 13, and 60 second marathon.
Very clearly Jakob. He is simply the greatest 1500m-5000m Specialist of all time. Already Olympic Champion at both events at the age of 24. Cannot wait to see if he can replicate this in LA 28. Here are the IAAF Results Scores added up and ranking for every event between the 1500m to the 5k.
Just curious, does IAAF have anything that objectively updates scores like this based on progression of the sport? I've seen age-grading scores in the past that update as new WRs occur.
Something like that would help take into account the benefits current athletes enjoy like better training methods, shoes, wavelights, etc.
Then we could run these numbers under that scoring system and might get a better picture of athletes relative to what they had to work with. Not perfect I know but I think it is doable and would be an improvement.
to even be in the all-around GOAT you need respectable 800 speed. Jakob cannot and could not ever run a sub 1:45 800.
The honor of all-around GOAT belongs to Augustine Choge, still the only man ever to break all the barriers of elitehood: 1:45, 3:30, 7:30, 13, and 60 second marathon. He'd easily run sub 27 if he gave a rip about that, but there's no incentive, other than to win this GOAT threads. As an actual elite he cares more about getting paid, and the 10,000 is economically dead and buried.
I don’t think he needs to improve his 800 PB. Let’s wait and see if he can break every WR from 1500-5000m though. That would be more impressive than Choge running fast but not actually holding any WRs.
The honor of all-around GOAT belongs to Augustine Choge, still the only man ever to break all the barriers of elitehood: 1:45, 3:30, 7:30, 13, and 60 second marathon.
A 60 second marathon is crazy
For reference that is just over mach 2. He'd give the flash a run for his money.
Id say jakob,because he's won more titles. I suppose if said aouita was running today,with fancy shoes,he would be better. He was near the top of the world from 800 to 10'000 meters
Aouita’s WRs became slow in a hurry. Within 10 years, his 12:58 WR had been improved by almost 20 seconds and 27:26 is pedestrian by today’s standards.
A WR is the best ever run to that point. They will always be broken eventually. Of course, technology is part of the reason so a race time of today is not the same as a race time of yesteryear. Comparing times from 4 decades ago is not reasonable.
As someone else said, Aouita won a lot and Jakob wins a lot. Both have WRs. They are both the best of their time and they were/are both equally arrogant.
Number 1 per Track and Field News in the 800m once and the 10k once. With numerous number ones in the 1500m/mile and 5k as well.
What range!
Oddly, both are/were very verbal about their greatness....a trait more associated with sprinters than distance runners.
What do you think Jakob could do in the 800m if he dedicated to it for a year? That's what Aouita did in 88.
Compare with Ovett, a clean runner winning 800 gold and setting a WR in the two miles, and a Commonwealth 5000m gold where he destroyed the guy who easily won the Europeans a few weeks later.
If a strength guy like Jakob, improved his 800m capability, wouldn’t his 1500m time improve as well?
Said Aouita did have an impressive record of 115 wins out of 119 races between 1983 and 1990. His main event seemed to be the 5000m but he won 800s 1500s, 5ks and 10ks. He was very versatile. After reconsidering, I would put him equal to Jakob. They both are very similar in achievements.
I don't know where you found that number but I love that. 115 and 4 record against the whole planet. That even better than the best Bulls, Golden State, or Patriots teams!
A list that ranks Stewie McSweyn and Craig Mottram (both, interestingly, coached by Nic Bideau) ahead of Steve Cram, John Walker, and Steve Ovett should raise some eyebrows. IAAF points tell an incomplete story when comparing runners across generations.
I agree. I think it is just a list of combine times = score/rank.
It is like saying Noah Droddy is a better marathoner than Frank Shorter because he has a better PR.
None of us think that but the list is an aggregation of times...
to even be in the all-around GOAT you need respectable 800 speed. Jakob cannot and could not ever run a sub 1:45 800.
The honor of all-around GOAT belongs to Augustine Choge, still the only man ever to break all the barriers of elitehood: 1:45, 3:30, 7:30, 13, and 60 second marathon. He'd easily run sub 27 if he gave a rip about that, but there's no incentive, other than to win this GOAT threads. As an actual elite he cares more about getting paid, and the 10,000 is economically dead and buried.
Do you mean "range GOAT" because that is what you are defining. Actual GOAT goes to someone who has a bunch of gold medals, world records, and broken barriers. Choge has none of those.
p.s. Choge is great but he isn't even the "range GOAT" either. He has run the marathon but in a pedestrian 2:20 and his 10km PR is 28:22. Sorry, not GOAT material.
Aouita was one of the biggest dopers in the history of the sport, so no real comparison.
Very naive statement.. He ended his career right before epo was being used by the Europeans. Yes, he did use certain steroids, but they don't have anywhere near the affect that epo has,
Aouita was ranked #1 in the world by Track & Field News in the world at the 800 (1988), the 1500 (1984 and 1987), the 5000 (1984-1987 and 1989) and the 10,000 (1986).
I know that Jakob has not finished his career and he very well may run a 5k or 1500 record one day...but as of now, who is the better runner?
I say Jakob due to 1500m + 5000m Olympic Gold but he also hasn't set the 1500m or 5000m record. Aouita set a WR in every event from 1500m to 5000m other than the mile. SO who would you argue is better and why?
Also, Passant, don't ruin this thread by explaining how Aouita was a product of himself and poverty, Idc.
Number 1 per Track and Field News in the 800m once and the 10k once. With numerous number ones in the 1500m/mile and 5k as well.
What range!
Oddly, both are/were very verbal about their greatness....a trait more associated with sprinters than distance runners.
What do you think Jakob could do in the 800m if he dedicated to it for a year? That's what Aouita did in 88.
Compare with Ovett, a clean runner winning 800 gold and setting a WR in the two miles, and a Commonwealth 5000m gold where he destroyed the guy who easily won the Europeans a few weeks later.
His 2 Miles was worth around 7:40 (WR 7:32.1). He "destroyed" a guy who "easily" won the Europeans - yeah, for sure. The race at the Europeans was a fast one, therefore Ovett didn't finish, just too fast for him. In slow races he could often use his strong finish for a win, but a fast pace always destroyed him.
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