I really am happy for Emma Coburn, but I completely agree that this is ethically dicey territory and needs more discussion.
Modern society is really struggling to square equality and difference when it comes to sex. Wealthier people can sustain the fiction that embodied sex differences don't matter by offloading reproductive labor and childrearing onto poorer women. This includes couples facing infertility or health issues that make pregnancy dangerous, those who don't want to interrupt a career, and gay men who cannot have a child outiside of adoption or surrogacy. In many of these cases, we see that "equality" is available to people with money and that it involves the commodification of the female body. And, this is occuring in which some radical but influential people are arguing that being female has nothing to do with the body.
I recognize that some women are not coerced into commodifying their bodies, but it's probably rare for a women to put a price tag on sex or her childbearing capacity if she is completely healthy and financially stable.
So, I am ambivalent. I believe in bodily autonomy, but I have serious questions about some forms of body commodification. Pregnancy and childbirth are particularly dicey becuase it involves a fetus/baby who cannot yet weigh in on the decision but will experience the consequences (both positive and negative) of these policies.
"but it's probably rare for a women to put a price tag on sex or her childbearing capacity if she is completely healthy and financially stable." .... Yes, if only everyone were completely healthy and financially stable, people would make all sorts of different decisions, wouldn't they? Let's start regulating adults' decisions on the assumption that everyone is a priori completely healthy and financially stable. Should work out well.
Where in my post did I say that I wanted to regulate on the grounds that everybody is healthy and stable? In fact, I never said that I am for or against surrogacy. I simply outlined some of the ethical considerations.
Do you think that it should be legal to sell a kidney? What about a desperately poor person selling all of their organs (effectively killing themself) so that they can lift their children out of poverty? How about the German "cannibal" who posted a ad seeking a man to break down and eat. In that case, an adult man agreed to be cannibalized for sexual pleasure. Was it wrong for the German government to prosecute that man?
Guys, this is her CHILD. It’s not something to hide because it’s your private life- everyone is going to notice she has a CHILD now. Pregnancy and birth are incredibly complex and we have no clue why they chose this path. However there are many many reasons to do so and those reasons are none of our business, even if she is acknowledging the child exists. It is arguably commendable to shed light on the fact that people take many paths to parenthood. Massive congratulations to her whole family. She is clearly over the moon and that is exactly who should be parents.
Are you sure that the surrogate is not the mother?
One could argue that any job involving manual labor is a form of body commodification. Would anyone do custodial work if they were qualified for better jobs?
Being pregnant for a living isn’t that bad at all. Great money and lots of free time. A surrogate could literally spend her time reading, watching tv, or chatting on this website while getting paid for it. I’m actually kind of jealous.
Have you ever considered why its illegal in most of the world? No seriously think of it. This is just another way of the rich exploiting poor women. I do not need to write an opinion piece on it because the consensus on this is well established but in the US no one cares. Even the social justice crowd seems fine because it benefits the rich.
Its illegal to sell parts of your bodies e.g. for Organ donation. Surrogacy and pregnancy in general are some of the highest risk to die for women. No one that is not financially desperate would ever take that risk on. So its just exploiting women from poor background even more so.
I'm not even for banning it completely. But it needs to be strictly regulated and only for medical reasons of absolute infertility.
It’s a risky profession, but it also seems like a great way to make a lot of money. I don’t see how that’s exploitative if someone does it voluntarily. Being a stunt double is also risky. Do you think stunt doubles are exploited?
Wow. Someone was home schooled while both parents worked
It’s a risky profession, but it also seems like a great way to make a lot of money. I don’t see how that’s exploitative if someone does it voluntarily. Being a stunt double is also risky. Do you think stunt doubles are exploited?
Wow. Someone was home schooled while both parents worked
Ad hominem attack. Weak tactic that’s only done when someone can’t refute a point made by someone else.
One could argue that any job involving manual labor is a form of body commodification. Would anyone do custodial work if they were qualified for better jobs?
Being pregnant for a living isn’t that bad at all. Great money and lots of free time. A surrogate could literally spend her time reading, watching tv, or chatting on this website while getting paid for it. I’m actually kind of jealous.
I agree with you. What happened to my body my choice? If a woman wants to be a surrogate, she should be allowed to do so. Government should not step in and interfere with voluntary exchanges between citizens. Personally, I do think that it is weird, but I shouldn't be able to force my beliefs onto others, especially if nobody is being forced/harmed.
One could argue that any job involving manual labor is a form of body commodification. Would anyone do custodial work if they were qualified for better jobs?
Being pregnant for a living isn’t that bad at all. Great money and lots of free time. A surrogate could literally spend her time reading, watching tv, or chatting on this website while getting paid for it. I’m actually kind of jealous.
Yes, manual labor is body commodification. But manual laborers don't typically develop emotional bonds with machinery or tools, the tools don't bond with them, and the tools don't cease to exist if the laborer stops using them. In fact, the laborer can walk away at any time without hurting the tools are him/herself. And, in contrast to organ donation, the physical laborer is not permanently parting ways with their hand, arm, etc.
So, the question is not whether bodily labor should be commodified. Our world runs on physical and mental labor, both of which are commodified. The question is whether there is something special about sex and reproduction that makes their commodification different. There clearly is, and that is why people have a negative reaction to it. What we do about that trepidation is a different question. runningchick posed that question, and people are acting like there's nothing to discuss.
Wow. Someone was home schooled while both parents worked
Ad hominem attack. Weak tactic that’s only done when someone can’t refute a point made by someone else.
You can’t fight biology. There is no way you can carry a child to term without connection, there is no way that child isn’t losing something without the mother’s milk. Science says it can be done, humans ask if it should be done. Oh and straw man arguments are weak tactics. There is no connection to this situation with your stunt man or janitorial comparisons
One could argue that any job involving manual labor is a form of body commodification. Would anyone do custodial work if they were qualified for better jobs?
Being pregnant for a living isn’t that bad at all. Great money and lots of free time. A surrogate could literally spend her time reading, watching tv, or chatting on this website while getting paid for it. I’m actually kind of jealous.
Yes, manual labor is body commodification. But manual laborers don't typically develop emotional bonds with machinery or tools, the tools don't bond with them, and the tools don't cease to exist if the laborer stops using them. In fact, the laborer can walk away at any time without hurting the tools are him/herself. And, in contrast to organ donation, the physical laborer is not permanently parting ways with their hand, arm, etc.
So, the question is not whether bodily labor should be commodified. Our world runs on physical and mental labor, both of which are commodified. The question is whether there is something special about sex and reproduction that makes their commodification different. There clearly is, and that is why people have a negative reaction to it. What we do about that trepidation is a different question. runningchick posed that question, and people are acting like there's nothing to discuss.
There should be nothing different in terms of regulation. Who are we to decide what's best for a woman and her body?
One could argue that any job involving manual labor is a form of body commodification. Would anyone do custodial work if they were qualified for better jobs?
Being pregnant for a living isn’t that bad at all. Great money and lots of free time. A surrogate could literally spend her time reading, watching tv, or chatting on this website while getting paid for it. I’m actually kind of jealous.
I agree with you. What happened to my body my choice? If a woman wants to be a surrogate, she should be allowed to do so. Government should not step in and interfere with voluntary exchanges between citizens. Personally, I do think that it is weird, but I shouldn't be able to force my beliefs onto others, especially if nobody is being forced/harmed.
That's just the thing, though. Some argue that the baby, and potentially the surrogate, is harmed because it involves severing a physical and psychological bond between the two. Opponents of surrogacy draw a distinction between this practice and adoption because the former involves planning a pregnancy and knowing that this bond will be severed, while adoption usually involves an unplanned pregnancy.
Adoption is so complicated that it's difficult to know if and how separation from a birth mother impacts health and development over the long term. I suspect that this separation does cause harm, but it's hard to know the magnitude of this harm and whether it's sufficient to ban surrogacy.
One could argue that any job involving manual labor is a form of body commodification. Would anyone do custodial work if they were qualified for better jobs?
Being pregnant for a living isn’t that bad at all. Great money and lots of free time. A surrogate could literally spend her time reading, watching tv, or chatting on this website while getting paid for it. I’m actually kind of jealous.
You’ve clearly never been pregnant. Or been with a women who is pregnant.
One could argue that any job involving manual labor is a form of body commodification. Would anyone do custodial work if they were qualified for better jobs?
Being pregnant for a living isn’t that bad at all. Great money and lots of free time. A surrogate could literally spend her time reading, watching tv, or chatting on this website while getting paid for it. I’m actually kind of jealous.
I agree with you. What happened to my body my choice? If a woman wants to be a surrogate, she should be allowed to do so. Government should not step in and interfere with voluntary exchanges between citizens. Personally, I do think that it is weird, but I shouldn't be able to force my beliefs onto others, especially if nobody is being forced/harmed.
My body my choice argument is a clever argument for those who don’t have an argument
"Support for Abortion Rights Varies by Trimester A May 1-24, 2023, survey asked about the legality of abortion at different stages of pregnancy and found about two-thirds of Americans saying it should be legal in the first trimester (69%), while support drops to 37% for the second trimester and 22% for the third. Majorities oppose legal abortion in the second (55%) and third (70%) trimesters. In line with Americans’ broad support for first-trimester abortions, the majority in the 2023 poll opposed laws that would “ban abortions after a fetal heartbeat can be detected, usually around the sixth week of pregnancy.”"
What do we learn from this? Support for abortion is not a black and white issue. Most people belive it should be legal in some circumstances and not others. Surrogacy may be similar. For example, I know a person who was a surrogate for her sister, and my guess is that post people are not opposed to this.
I agree surrogacy is a complex topic, but assuming bad faith on Emma is ridiculous. She doesn’t owe you an explanation and pregnancy is a heavy and emotional topic. Going on her Instagram to question her choice of surrogacy is rude and obnoxious.
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