She's fully aware she'll be wearing a scarlet letter for the rest of her life, and probably figures she has nothing to lose once she's back. I don't blame her for saying screw it, I'm going for all the records, don't care if you got a problem with it.
That sucks for all the other athletes, esp the ones who compete with integrity and now have to lose to her. Lose spots on teams, titles, prize money, and a lasting career.
But go Shelby, yeah baby! What a bad ass she is not caring what anyone thinks!
Like her or not, she will be a force in the 5000m/10000m. Monson, Schweizer, Valby, Kelati, St. Pierre, Morgan, and now add Houlihan. Going to be a tough team to make in 2025.
I can just see the meltdown from Valby's cult if burrito lady blocks her from the team.
I am open to believing that she is innocent if she successfully comes back and comes close to her peak form at age 31. Wrongly convicted people tend to fight tirelessly for years no matter what, much like she has done so far. And when she returns, she is going to be getting drug tested 30 times/year for the rest of her career. If she runs 3:57 or 14:35 under such intense scrutiny, she is innocent in my book. I feel like expecting her old times at her age is asking too much.
I am open to believing that she is innocent if she successfully comes back and comes close to her peak form at age 31. Wrongly convicted people tend to fight tirelessly for years no matter what, much like she has done so far. And when she returns, she is going to be getting drug tested 30 times/year for the rest of her career. If she runs 3:57 or 14:35 under such intense scrutiny, she is innocent in my book. I feel like expecting her old times at her age is asking too much.
I highly doubt she’ll be competitive in the 1500 at age 31. But it wouldn’t shock me to see her make a few more teams in the 5000/10000.
she lives in Arizona so I assume she'll be training a lot in Flagstaff. there are SO many pros that train up there, many she knows and was probably friendly with before her ban. the awkwardness is gonna be off the charts. will she can find people to train with? all of those pros have some sort of shoe contract or are on pro teams that I'm sure are concerned with image and want to steer clear of anyone remotely involved in steroids.
curious if the running community forgives her. Alex Rodriguez got busted for steroids and now does play by play for MLB, but it's always seemed like in Olympic sports, steroids is a death sentence.
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LOL - "accusations" of cheating? She literally got a four year ban for her intentional doping. The interviewer doesn't have to pretend to believe she's innocent.
He is not pretending. He really believes in her. She tells him that she is unequivocally "not a doper" and innocent. He believes her. It is traumatizing the first time someone looks you in the eyes and lies with cold-blooded intention and without betraying themselves at all.
Dominic is having a conversation with someone who "doesn't seem crazy" and lying like that is crazy. I understand why he believe her (from a psychological perspective).
I think that if you (or I) had been friends with Shelby when this happened, we would have heard her side of it and believed her. I know several people in that situation out here in the PNW.
Forget anything to do with the doping, the cringiest part of the interview was the what seemed like 15 minute long discussion on super shoes that just awkwardly kept going and going where the interviewer kept pushing on about why super shoes are so great.
Not sure how the guy gets such good guests consistently lol, not the biggest fan of his style but props I guess.
I felt the same way. He needs to just send her a pair in her size and move on.
But I also am driven insane by people who haven't run in supershoes who say "they can't really make that much of a difference" and at the same time "I don't want to wear them because they basically give me an unfair advantage."
The shoes are amazing and everyone is wearing them.
People like Shelby (in this interview) sound like the last Tour de France cyclist in 1949 who said, "I don't want to use 'gears' on my bike!"
I don’t like listening to podcasts. Can someone summarize the conversation?
…
They have the longest and most painful boring conversation about shoes possible. It's meandering and boring and lasts most of the podcast…
The super shoes discussion is fascinating because of the dichotomy with doping. If she truly believes what she says about super shoes, there’s no way she doped intentionally. If she did dope intentionally, the facade she puts up about super shoes not being fair is incredibly detailed and premeditated.
Oh, and I think the podcast is very solid. He doesn’t go into the details of the ban, but refers to his prior podcast that did. In this podcast, he mentions the ban numerous times and does not hide the issue at all.
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I don’t like listening to podcasts. Can someone summarize the conversation?
Yes, happy to do it:
Her identity is tied to running so even when she was at a low point these last couple years, she knew she couldn't quit because she'd have nothing
She doesn't follow the digital criticism (i.e. she doesn't read Letsrun)
She has dialed back her training in terms of intensity and mileage
She hasn't been great about doing things like going to the gym either
She posts most of her runs on Strava so you can follow her that way if you want
She still doesn't want to run in supershoes but admits she might have to to be in the mix (this was the topic where she seemed most out of touch with the sport as it exists today)
Would like to target the indoor mile world record. She wasn't sure what the existing record even is but she knows that if she runs a 4:10, she'll have it
Most of all she misses training with her friends and her team
She straight up said, "I am not a doper" and "I am innocent" without missing a beat. She does not "avoid the question" like some people in her situation.
She would like to go back to Bowerman but doesn't like running in the rain, so Eugene isn't ideal for her. Her favorite place is Arizona.
She would be willing to run for a different brand, if that made more sense in terms of a "fresh start"
She is a sympathetic person and if you weren't a track insider, you'd assume she'd be sabotaged or that the positive test was a mess up. She doesn't give off a "roided out" vibe like some dopers. But by now we are all skeptical of even the "nicest" people (e.g. Tyler Hamilton).
she lives in Arizona so I assume she'll be training a lot in Flagstaff. there are SO many pros that train up there, many she knows and was probably friendly with before her ban. the awkwardness is gonna be off the charts. will she can find people to train with? all of those pros have some sort of shoe contract or are on pro teams that I'm sure are concerned with image and want to steer clear of anyone remotely involved in steroids.
curious if the running community forgives her. Alex Rodriguez got busted for steroids and now does play by play for MLB, but it's always seemed like in Olympic sports, steroids is a death sentence.
I am surprised she doesn't train with masters men and b-level post collegiate runners? The number of men who can tempo with her at 14:30 pace in Flagstaff must be in the dozens (more?) and yet finding women like that is insanely rare.
Why doesn't she just train with men? It seems to have worked wonders for Jessica Hull.
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I don't think it is meant literally. She said, "break every record I can." That isn't what Jakob Ingebrigtsen is saying. He is being literal. She is talking about PRs and US records and so on.
The quote about breaking all the records came across as a statement of her mindset, not a specific goal in a literal sense. Here is the exact quote:
"I do have a chip on my shoulder, for sure. I want to go out and try to light it on fire. I do want to break every record I can. I do feel like I have a lot to prove and to prove it in the time I have left."
The exception to his was the indoor mile talk. That seems like something she was actually, specifically targeting.
The "all the records" comment was more like, "I just want to find out what I am really capable of after these wasted years."
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I just listened to the final four minutes of the podcast (which is what I hadn't listened to during my run today) and I stand corrected. She did go on a mini-rant at the very end of the podcast about going after "every record" from the 800 to the marathon... I know she wasn't speaking strategically, but sort of "throwing it out there." Still, it made her sound a little crazy right at the end. It isn't tethered to reality.
p.s. And I would like to see Dominic ask some hard questions. His guests seem to love him, so I am sure they would understand if he asked a few tough questions, right?
Are you tripping? Just imagine you're not a cheat and are done out of money/accolades/medals by someone who's not only a doper but a liar? How would you feel? This not only applies to Houlihan but all dopers.
I am open to believing that she is innocent if she successfully comes back and comes close to her peak form at age 31. Wrongly convicted people tend to fight tirelessly for years no matter what, much like she has done so far. And when she returns, she is going to be getting drug tested 30 times/year for the rest of her career. If she runs 3:57 or 14:35 under such intense scrutiny, she is innocent in my book. I feel like expecting her old times at her age is asking too much.
Pete Rose denied gambling on baseball for over a decade until he had a book to sell. Once Shelby's comeback doesn't work out maybe we'll get a bestseller out of it.
but...we are all aware that we have a history of cheering on dopers once the suspension is up right? So why should this be any different? ALL these athletes are under immense pressure to take these substances as "just part of competition". They don't want to, they need to because everyone else is. So for me, I guess I will root for her as someone rising from the ashes but glad she had to serve suspension. Doping is not the same as getting on a train and cheating. It's the accepted culture and people get dragged into once they see lesser athletes passing them by and everyone turning a blind eye. It's cynical, but that's what it is. Im in favor of smacking them with long suspensions, but I wonder if they are all "bad people".
I don't really think cheating in this sport, in this day and age, makes you a "bad" person. I never cheated, granted I was far from elite, but, like, I get it. Seemingly everyone's doing it.
What makes me think you're a bad person is going on the only podcast that will entertain your voice, one hosted by a teenager, to let you say whatever dumb sh!t you want. What makes me think you're a bad person is doing a Lance-style "you're all dumb and wrong" media tour that all these athletes and coaches do. If people accepted their bans with a touch of humility, I wouldn't really think one bit less of them. Instead we get guys like Salazar who swing Nike's corporate power around to get someone DQd because they didn't like how the race unfolded. Now that makes you a bad person.
Valid argument. Although I have always said....People being mad at lance because "he lied" (more than the doping) is silly. When you take a banned substance, its kind of required that you lie about it right? That's how it works. Now insisting too hard and dragging other's in by crowdfunding (Floyd) and ruining careers (Lance) is bad I will say. I think Shelby did the requisite- go to court and get it overturned on a technicality- that is also becoming the norm.
I just listened to the final four minutes of the podcast (which is what I hadn't listened to during my run today) and I stand corrected. She did go on a mini-rant at the very end of the podcast about going after "every record" from the 800 to the marathon... I know she wasn't speaking strategically, but sort of "throwing it out there." Still, it made her sound a little crazy right at the end. It isn't tethered to reality.
p.s. And I would like to see Dominic ask some hard questions. His guests seem to love him, so I am sure they would understand if he asked a few tough questions, right?
Well, that's the chicken and the egg question right? Do they love him because they know he won't ask them or press them on the tough questions?
Like if I was talking to Shelby and she said something about the 800 record, my instant reaction would be first of all to ask why could you barely break 2 when running 3:54.9x? How could you expect to run way faster at age 31 etc.? I asked Schweizer a tough (I thought fair) question about Bowerman after 5th Ave and I'm not sure she loved it ~ she called it a "loaded question," but she answered it professionally and honestly. If I had then been like come on my podcast (I don't have one), I bet she would've said no, I'm good. But I bet she'd always say yes to Dominic.
Training-wise she is doing the Norwegian method for hobbyjoggers, which is kinda funny. That doesn’t feel at all like BTC training. She’s done 8x800 w/ 45” rest, 6x1K w/ 1’ rest, 6x1200 w/ 1’ rest and even did a hills session of 200s which is standard. She does long runs, which is not really a part of it though. Her pacing is a little different (markedly faster last rep, and saying she changes gears the last 200m). I like the system for myself but she should probably be doing double-T (or a more grueling system a la Ben Thomas) if she’s aspiring to get world records.
Or maybe she believes she knows about other things that will help her get world records that do not require grueling, double-T or any other type of training.
Valid argument. Although I have always said....People being mad at lance because "he lied" (more than the doping) is silly. When you take a banned substance, its kind of required that you lie about it right? That's how it works. Now insisting too hard and dragging other's in by crowdfunding (Floyd) and ruining careers (Lance) is bad I will say. I think Shelby did the requisite- go to court and get it overturned on a technicality- that is also becoming the norm.
I agree that the cheating is itself a form of a lie (a performance of a lie). All cheaters are de facto liars.
But I think most people rightfully hated Lance Armstrong because he was also willing to destroy good people who were honest, truthful, and asking the right questions.
If a 23 year old massage therapist finds EPO and 'roids in your hotel room and takes it to the team director (as she should), you can't savagely destroy that LMT and make her lose her job, force her out of her career, derail her life and then sue her for defamation.
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