...on a cinders track...in early may. this is honestly a really cool idea. injuries would be the biggest concern, iwould suspect, especially considering the footwear.
Herb Elliott already did it in Dublin
In a real race, unpaced. 3:54.5
Didn't Landy basically front run a 3:58 mile in Finland a few weeks after Bannister ran sub 4?
Even with PEDs, all they have to do is all wear spikes from 6 years ago an no one breaks 3:50.
Same mentally impaired clown going on with his rageposting. Get a clue bud, there's a reason why no one takes you seriously around here
Ooh, sorry I insulted your golf buddies. Only “rageposting” going on here is from you. I don’t give a crap either way. This is your lame sport not mine.
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They have raced each other a lot, and there is not much reason to think that and old track and spikes would disadvantage one more than the other.
MUCH more interesting would be to see them match up in cross country. Though Jakob is the only one of these guys who has ever manned up and raced XC on the world stage. (12th in 2019!)
Anyway, World XC will be in Florida in 2026, so no excuses for the Americans...
"Overall, while running water was increasingly common in the 1960s, complete and universal coverage in all areas was still a work in progress, with variations based on local development and infrastructure." ChatGPT You can look it up, many people did not have running water in the 1950s, and you can bet your sweet bippy Roger Bannister did not have the advantages Jacob Ingebritsen does! That includes many things that young people would not even be aware of such as shoveling coal into the furnace late at night to avoid freezing to death. Do you seriously think Bannister NEVER had to do that? What about carrying huge blocks of ice to the refrigerator? Yes, and yes.
Bad post.
Bannister was a medical student from a well-off family.
They have raced each other a lot, and there is not much reason to think that and old track and spikes would disadvantage one more than the other.
MUCH more interesting would be to see them match up in cross country. Though Jakob is the only one of these guys who has ever manned up and raced XC on the world stage. (12th in 2019!)
Anyway, World XC will be in Florida in 2026, so no excuses for the Americans...
Jakob would wipe the floor with them in cross country, no question. He's the 5k gold medalist and he's a proven xc champion. So though I love cross country, I don't think it's as interesting. Maybe interesting to see exactly how MUCH better he is, but the outcome is not in doubt.
The idea of the race is more to see how they are against Bannister and Landy than against each other, although the competition aspect makes it compelling. I know they train very differently. I don't care about who's more talented or great or whatever, I care about how their fitness compares. We could see the effect of modern training.
Based on a quick Google Maps search, Iffley Road track appears to have been modernized, so using the same track might not really get at the desired effect.
Yes, there aren't many cinder tracks left in the UK.
on a slight tangent, here's a video of Stewart McSweyn running a 3.59 mile on grass in a handicap race in Australia. Unfortunately the handcapping didn't work quite as well as planned as there was a few guys ahead of McSweyn that he couldn't catch.
My late grandfather - a sprinter/LJ - was head of Cambridge Athletic Club when they traveled with the Oxford team, led by Bannister, to America to compete against the Ivy schools. Bannister later became my uncle's godfather, and I wish I had picked their brains more when I had the chance. It took the British teams 3 weeks to cross the ocean on the Queen Elizabeth, and you can imagine not much training happened! They had fun, but on the track they were serious. I visited my grandparents often in the south of England, and my grandfather would point out the cliffs where Bannister trained. My grandfather said he gravitated toward sprinting because he didn't want to deal with the pain that came with the longer distances. Two takeaways: FIRST, during their time in university, Oxbridge men were insulated from the world of work. They lived a life of leisure that modern universities don't provide, and weren't worried about paying off loans afterward. Most of the men my grandfather knew - he included - had also just fought in the war, so there were men on both teams who set a more serious tone for younger guys like Bannister. SECOND, the British have a way of "understating" the work they put in to achieve something impressive. It's just the way they speak. You'll never know what he meant when he said he "did nothing" on certain days, but he certainly did something. When my grandfather spoke to me as a young kid, he often forgot his stoic manners. When he waved to the cliffs where Bannister trained, he made it very clear that this was Bannister's house of pain, which he endured most days as a distance runner. I'm around Ritzenhein's age, and my grandfather's description of Bannister is similar to what I've heard about the younger Ritz. Anyway, great memories!
Yes, there aren't many cinder tracks left in the UK.
on a slight tangent, here's a video of Stewart McSweyn running a 3.59 mile on grass in a handicap race in Australia. Unfortunately the handcapping didn't work quite as well as planned as there was a few guys ahead of McSweyn that he couldn't catch.
I trained on a cinder track in high school in the mid 90s. I wonder if it's still there? The biggest drawback versus paved tracks (no high tech tracks existed in my city at the time) was that if you fell and got scraped up, your leg was full of dirt and rocks. Not ideal.
Graduated from HS in 1981. We didn't have a track. Beginning of spring we'd measure a arc from the football goal post to get the "arc" to be 100 yards and have 400 meter grass\ dirt track. We'd run 400's in 62-63
Funny thing was by the end of track season we'd gradually cut the "arc" down to about 75 yards. You could see a worn path of the gradual smaller "arc" in the dandy lions . By end of track season we'd run 400's in 56-57 !!! But in meets couldn't run under 2:00 flat ;)
It is impossible to re-create the time period Roger Bannister lived in. He probably had to get up in the middle of the night and shovel coal into the furnace to avoid freezing to death. You cannot UNTRAIN people into running 15 miles a week and only in season. "We only trained when a race was coming up, the rest of the time we did nothing." There was no running water, refrigeration and cooking was different. You cannot create a whole new era. Plus expectations were far different, they thought it was impossible to run sub-4:00, now it's a given that the entire field will run under 4 minutes!
I hate to tell you but even in the 1960s many homes in America and Europe did not have running water. "No, not everyone had access to running water in the 1950s. Access to running water varied significantly by region and country, largely depending on economic development, infrastructure, and governmental priorities. In many developed countries, particularly in Western Europe and North America, running water was common in urban and suburban areas by the 1950s. These regions had invested heavily in infrastructure and public utilities, making running water a standard feature in homes. However, in many parts of the world, particularly in less developed or developing countries, access to running water was limited. Rural areas and poorer communities often relied on wells, rivers, or communal taps, and infrastructure for widespread piped water was not as developed. Efforts to improve access to clean water have continued since the 1950s, and today, many more people around the world have access to running water, though disparities still exist." ChatGPT
Hell, there are areas in the country right now without running water or suitable drinking water, especially in West Virginia/Appalachia
Who the hell cares what Bannister ate for breakfast or whatever, or whether he was more or less talented a runner, I just want to compare racing conditions. Have any of the current Kenyans (or anyone) spent significant time barefoot running? That person would be my wildcard bet.
They have raced each other a lot, and there is not much reason to think that and old track and spikes would disadvantage one more than the other.
MUCH more interesting would be to see them match up in cross country. Though Jakob is the only one of these guys who has ever manned up and raced XC on the world stage. (12th in 2019!)
Anyway, World XC will be in Florida in 2026, so no excuses for the Americans...
Jakob would wipe the floor with them in cross country, no question. He's the 5k gold medalist and he's a proven xc champion. So though I love cross country, I don't think it's as interesting. Maybe interesting to see exactly how MUCH better he is, but the outcome is not in doubt.
The idea of the race is more to see how they are against Bannister and Landy than against each other, although the competition aspect makes it compelling. I know they train very differently. I don't care about who's more talented or great or whatever, I care about how their fitness compares. We could see the effect of modern training.
To be honest, this doesn't sound very interesting to me as it can be estimated more easily than setting up some "fun" time trial where nobody will be peaked and running flat-out, anyway.
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