Lausanne 1500 Hocker vs. Jakob

You are probably right. But the schedule (14 hours gap between 1500m final and 5000m heat) was stupid -it certainly broke Nordås f.ex….

He is running 3k in Silesia Aug 25.th…

Silesia Aug 25.th.

I wonder why this was downvoted. Overall the meets that are right after world champs or olympics tend to be a bit slower than expected. I remember from past years that right after the games for example the 100m guys run ~0,1s slower and the 400m guys ~0,5s slower than they did in the games.

I would be very excited to see WR but big competitions take their mental toll. It's difficult to psych your body up to the same degree. 3:27 would be a great performance. Maybe 3:28-3:29 for Hocker

False -I for instance remember very well that Jakob was beaten by Cheruiyot in the 2021 DL final…

Yes, but last year Jakob broke the 2000m WR in his first race post WC.

OG gold medalist / Iron man winner Blummenfelt’s coach Bu (who also is an engineer) did a research to estimate Jakob’s time loss from front running in the OG final: His estimate was 2 sec to Kerr and a little more to Hocker…

I think Jakob knows that he might lose some time by front running. But I also think he thinks that he can get some of this time back by thus getting a very good opportunity to modulate his stride and pace perfectly. But in OG he screwed up, and lost paradoxically both because of the draft loss, but also because of his own very bad pace / opening…

Jakon have said - after the olympics - that is is more motivated than ever. I expect low 3.26 in the 1500, and a new world record at 3000 in Poland. His shape is still superb after the buildup to the olympics.

Nordas was never going to be relevant in either race this year with his form, especially not at 5000 (his worse distance).

Drafting gets discussed here all the time. Running a mile on a track is too slow with minimal surface area (unless big wind) to have much drafting effect. It's not like cycling.

What weighs on the front runner is the mental strain of leading, and feeling the chasers on your shoulder. The followers benefit from not having to think much about pace until it's kicking time.

Agreed. But he impressed in the 5000m heats. And in the Nationals (5000m) he forced Jakob to go hard on the home straight. He has some hidden capacity -maybe next year? (He says he is feeling very tired and unmotivated right now)…

This and after he won gold in Tokyo, he broke the (at the time) meet record in the Bowerman mile in 3:47.24, however his races after that indicated fatigue with a 7:33.06 3K in Lausanne and a 2nd place in the Diamond League Final against Cheruiyot where both “only” ran 3:31. I do agree with both sides, it is hard to make a return after the intense emotional high of winning Olympic gold

Yes, it seems complex. But here’s the link to the research: (I will give a translation in my next post).

tv2.no

Analyserte OL-nedturen - fant oppsiktsvekkende tall

Per Tho Angell

Triatlontrener Olav Aleksander Bu har analysert 1500 meter-løpet til Jakob Asserson Ingebrigtsen. Konklusjonen forbauser.

Open link

Absolutely wrong.

Google translate:

Analyzed the Olympic slump - found startling figures
Triathlon coach Olav Aleksander Bu has analyzed the 1500 meter race for Jakob Asserson Ingebrigtsen. The conclusion is surprising.
On Saturday evening, the Norwegian runner king will avenge Tuesday's huge setback - and run in the Olympic final of 5000 metres.
And the reigning world champion over the distance is unlikely to use the same tactics as he did in the 1500 metres.
Olav Aleksander Bu is both a researcher and trainer for the triathlete Kristian Blummenfelt. Over the years, he has, among other things, made scientific measurements on how profitable it is to run in the drag of a hare.
When asked by TV 2, he took on the challenge of finding out how much time Jakob Asserson Ingebrigtsen "lost" by being at the front in the 1500 meters where he ended up outside the podium - and not least how much the competitors gained from being behind.
AIR RESISTANCE CALCULATED: Olav Aleksander Bu is a researcher and trainer for Gustav Iden and Kristian Blummenfelt. Photo: Markus Engås / TV 2
- We made some models of this when we worked on the sub 7 project for Kristian Blummenfelt and Gustav Iden at Ironman. Then we were allowed to use hares, and quickly found out that there is a significant difference in lying behind another. Also running, Bu tells TV 2.
And after spending some time inserting the height, weight and shoulder width of Ingebrigtsen into the model, he quickly arrived at figures that give clear answers to how much the Norwegian lost due to his tactical choice.
The first thing Bu calculated was the average speed of the race time 3:28.24.
- The average speed is then 25.92 km/hour. This amounts to 7.2 meters per second.
In air resistance, this amounts to 15.4 Newtons, or 1.6 kilograms of force. In that case, speed variation or position is not taken into account.
But to make it easier for the common man to understand how much air resistance is at that speed, Bu uses the term watt, which is commonly used in bicycles.
- The air resistance of 26 km/h thus amounts to more than 110 watts, explains Bu.
- The boys think of him every time they cycle
If you want to know for yourself how much the resistance makes up in effect, you can simply set the resistance on a normal ergometer bicycle to 110 Watt. It will feel good even for well-trained exercisers.
Or:
- The simplest image we can use for this is if someone took a rope around your waist and attached a fish scale to the rope. Then they'd hold you back while you ran until the scale read about 1.6 kilos. It's noticeable - especially when you run up to your maximum speed, he says.
Saves a lot on lying behind
The calculations by Bu and the triathlon gang also gave an answer to how much it pays to lie behind a hare.
- You reduce air resistance by 70-80 per cent lying behind a hare at 1,500 metres. Or in this case the air resistance will have been reduced from about 110 to just over 40 Watts. That is significant, says the researcher.
Bu has also calculated how much faster Ingebrigtsen could have run if he had done the same race, and used the same amount of power - with a hare in front of him.
- It is a bit difficult to assess as we do not have an exact model of Jakob, but it is about two seconds in the 1500 metres.
- In other words, would Jakob Ingebrigtsen have been very close to the world record of 3:26.00?
- Yes, you can say that.
Bu also believes that the feeling and the mental play a big role in whether you lie as one or two when you run at speeds as high as 26 km/h.
- Definitely. You will notice a big difference if you go from lying second to lying first. You know that well.
In addition:
- The winner Cole Hocker also benefits from the fact that he is mostly third or fourth in a row throughout almost the entire race. Those in his position will feel even less air resistance than the person directly behind. The difference is not as great as between one and two, but it is measurable.
DROUGHT THE COMPETITORS: The numbers show that Cole Hocker (at the back of the picture) got the optimal run behind both Jakob Asserson Ingebrigtsen (in front) and Josh Kerr (in the middle). Photo: Daniel Sannum Lauten / TV 2.
- Tactics and strategy
Even though he has a coaching background, Bu does not want to say too much about the race of the Norwegian running king.
- As a trainer. How good do you think it is to run 3:28 solo?
- I haven't really made up my mind about it. This will be a theoretical review. Besides, the Olympics are not just about physiology. It is also about tactics and strategy, he says and elaborates.
- If everyone had run a solo race, it would have been directly comparable. But because they run in a group, tactics become central, concludes Bu.
PS! Jakob Ingebrigtsen has won two straight golds in both the EC and WC in the 5000 metres. In all of these races, he has been at the back of the field along the way, only to overtake the competitors in the sprint.

I haven't said a single bad word about him since the win lol. My main criticism was him never putting himself in it. That and positioning.

Hocker? What do you mean he never put himself in it? That’s how he won.

You're talking about absolute nothing since there is no news of Hocker racing in Lausanne while there is an article talking about a possibile (but not certain) partecipation of Ingebrigtsen.

I think that if Ingebrigtsen Jakob runs the 1500m in Lausanne he won't have any chance to break the 3000m WR three days later in Poland.

He'll care what the appearance fee is! Today's price is not yesterday's price!