Hocker is the best US 1500 runner of all time

Centro in his 2016 form would never have been able to win this race. The other racers in Rio didn’t have the balls to take the lead at any other point in the race. These two races aren’t comparable.

Ryun did win the silver in Mexico at altitude. Tripped in Munich and under today's rules may have got a start in the semi. A very rare talent. These sorts of comparisons are like religious arguments and never end well. Having said that I would put have Centro number 1 (based on his Gold and other medals he didn't win by being beaten by dopers). I'm old so I would put Ryun over Hocker but Hocker has the hardwear so that's debatable. Lagat third. Jim Lightbody and Mel Sheppard are the other Olympic 1500 gold medalists.

To my recollection, the USA and Kenya engaged in some dodgy deal making regarding Lagat’s citizenship. In essence, there is strategic ambiguity about the exact date he became a U.S. citizen (probably to ensure he could compete for Kenya in 2004 Olympics). For that reason, there is also disagreement about which of his races he did or did not run while a U.S. citizen. Different organizations have decided to call the date differently, resulting in different official U.S. records.

Again, I love Cole Hocker and I am so proud of him!! Cole you rock!!! Lets take a step back and look at the history of the sport. I'm as caught up in Cole mania as anyone. Cole as much as I love him (I'm an Indiana native) we can not forget the great Mel Sheppard! This guy won the 1500 & 800 meters in one Olympics. He also set the Olympic record in THE HEATS of the 1500! He also won another gold medal in the relay that Olympics. He wasn't a flash in the pan either. The following Olympics he won silver in the 800m and gold in THE 4 X 400 running the leadoff leg! So, if it's all about gold in the 1500 and thats it. Cole is not the best 1500 guy--even if I think he is, because history says otherwise!!! Cole ur the best---remember those camps at Marion College!!!

> Let's be rational here

> Jim Ryun would run a 3:40 mile in today's conditions

And people say Jakob fanboys are delusional?

Jim Ryun dominated and was in the top 3 in the world for 3 straight seasons. He was also in contention for a number of other seasons. He also held the 1500/Mile WR for 7-8 years. Hocker still has quite some work to do to surpass that.

As good as Cole was in the Olympics, Yared might be the better talent in the next year or two. Cole had the best performance of a US miler/1500 runner at an Olympics, but he isn't that far ahead of Yared on any given day.

Not sure why this is upvoted so much. "... on the backs of the greats before them..." No, Hocker didn't need any help from Ryun, Webb, etc. (No disrespect to those guys either.)

He ran the miles himself. For all we know, he was more inspired by Mr. Rogers than anyone else.

Maybe in other fields your success is built on the backs of others (e.g., tech innovation for example) - but not running. It's a pure individual and very simplistic sport - run fastest to the finish line and you get the gold.

Now if you want to talk about SuperSpikes, wave lights and other advantages Hocker has benefited from - fine. But he didn't get those advantages from "the greats".

I'm calling b*llsh*t on this one. Everyone knows, especially the elite runners, that if you dropped a legend like Jim Ryun into today's era that he would adapt and still dominate. This is why I think that Paavo Nurmi is still the greatest distance runner to ever run on the face of this planet.

I feel like Yared has an argument to be made to be within at least the top 5 all time seeing that he does have the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th and 6th fastest US 1500's of all time

Cole is 23. It is far too early to start the GOAT talk.

He's off to an amazing start. It is likely he will keep adding to his record/medal haul in coming years.

Might is a wasted thought process.

All that matters is did and do.

So far Hocker is the unarguable best.

That never lasts for ever, so enjoy him while he's producing. Someone else will come along.

I'll give an opinion as a non American (hence no emotional bias to anyone/era etc etc).

To me your contenders are the ones laid out by almost everyone here already - Ryun, Centrowitz, Hocker and no disrespect to any of the other great US 1500m runners but they have kind of separated themselves.

Hocker has an Olympic title and the record. I don't know how I feel about Lagat as the national record holder a little under 3 years after he became the Kenyan national record holder but yeah, different topic. I would personally consider Hocker the AR with his run from Paris.

Centro also has his title but he also has 2 WC medals - both behind a guy who was banished from the sport and especially in the case of 2013 (when he won silver) was absolutely doping at the time (discussed his possible doping timeline relative to his performances on another active thread). Not just that, he was relevant the entire 2010's - he made every world final of the 2010's except for the London WC's.

Ryun is mythical. He was so far ahead of his time and is the only WR holder of this trio. His 1500m and mile records lasted 14 years between them (6 for the 1500, 8 for the mile). He has hardware from an Olympics and while it wasn't the ultimate, he lost out to an equally legendary athlete in difficult circumstances (of which we didn't really understand completely at the time) - 7300ft of altitude.

My final wrinkle is that I distinguish between "best" and "greatest". I don't think they are the exact same thing though they are obviously intertwined with each other. I think it is absolutely possible that in a hypothetically era-neutral situation Hocker could beat Ryun, thus making him the better runner. But on the other hand I don't think one epic performance is simply enough for you to be the greatest.

Best US 1500m runner

1) Hocker

2) Ryun

3) Centro

Greatest US 1500m runner

1) Ryun

2) Centro

3) Hocker

The list immediately above is extremely fragile. If Hocker backs that OG win with a WC win he obviously vaults Centro and then it's difficult to separate his global performances with Ryuns records and transcendence of the era. If he comes the pre-eminent championship miler of the 2020's then he will become the greatest 1500m you ever had.

vs those guys you listed, yes, agreed, only Jim Ryun (world record holder) compares; if Cole gets a WR it's game over undisputed

Jim Ryun…by a mile

2 Glen Cunningham

3 Matthew Centrowitz

4 Cole Hocker

5 Wes Santee

You've got be kidding, this was the perfect rabbited race. Hocker had a rabbit that ran a consistent pace right at his limit all the way to the finish, not dropping out with a lap to go, who also was kind enough to Hocker to move off the rail in the final stretch to give him an opening.

Your recollection is completely wrong. There was no deal making. Lagat's citizenship went through faster than he thought it would and he became a US citizen before the 2004 Olympics. He kept it quiet and Kenya had no idea Lagat was a US citizen (and therefore no longer a Kenya citizen since Kenya doesn't allow dual citizenship).

no chance Hocker is better than Ryun...I submit this video as proof

If both Centro and Hocker are in their prime, Hocker out kicks Centro in both Rio and Paris.

If Centro could somehow force others to run 70 second 400m pace, why didn’t he do so in every championship race?