Is Mondo The GOAT of Track & Field?

I don't think anyone on this thread is claiming that Mondo is close to GOAT status. Most, like myself, are questioning if he is even the greatest vaulter of all time so far. I was only claiming that the current dominance he has over his competition is in Bolt/Moses territory and is unprecedented in today's era. Yes, Carl Lewis is the greater athlete and has the greater career. He is probably the GOAT of track & field. But was he as dominant? Lewis's biggest win was the LJ in 84, by the same margin Mondo won the PV tonight, but Mondo won by a great percentage and likely could have gone even higher.

By measuring dominance over his competition, I think Mondo has it over Crouser. Crouser has 2 relatively close competitors, one who would have broken the prior world record as well. Both Mondo and Crouser got silver in 2019, but Mondo has been more untouchable since, going 6-0 in global champs while Crouser's gone 5-1. Mondo has been world ranked #1 in all those seasons while Crouser hasn't. Mondo is also more dominant on the diamond league circuit, winning three straight titles and many meets by greater percentages than Crouser.

Nope, not even in the pole vault.

Bubka advanced the world record 17 times over 10 years. Mondo has done it 9 times in 4 or 5 years.

We need to look at their competition. Throughout his run, Crouser has had to contend with Joe Kovacs, the second-best shot putter of all time. There is no Kovacs-level rival for Mondo. Lavillenie has been a shell of his peak self the past few years, and there isn't anyone else in the pole vault like Kovacs.

Penalizing Crouser for having to deal with Kovacs would be like penalizing Geb because he had to deal with Tergat.

In summary:

• More gold medals: Crouser
• Unprecedented dominance in his event: Crouser
• Breaking the world record by a larger percentage: Crouser
• Dominating better competition: Crouser
• Using a ball that's the same weight as his predecessors rather than benefitting from a lighter pole: Crouser

Crouser wins.

Nobody is arguing Crouser doesn't have a better career than Mondo. The argument is that Mondo is more dominant over his competition, which you seem to agree with?

Sorry, I thought we were discussing who's greater between Crouser and Mondo. That's the question that most interests me pertaining to the thread topic.

If you want to focus on the more narrow question of who's more dominant over his competition, I think we'd need to hone in a little more.

Here's their margin of victory percentage for their gold medal wins at Olympic and outdoor world championships:

• 2016: Crouser won by 3.4%, Mondo N/A
• 2021: Crouser won by 2.9%, Mondo won by 0.8%
• 2022: Crouser won by 0.2%, Mondo won by 4.5%
• 2023: Crouser won by 5.2%, Mondo won by 1.7%
• 2024: Crouser won by 3.4%, Mondo won by 5.0%

On average, they both have won by 3.0%!

We can also look beyond just championship performances. I looked at the period from 2021-now, and I found that Crouser has lost 6 times, and Mondo has lost only 4 times. However, Crouser has never finished worse than 2nd in that span, whereas Mondo has finished as low as 4th on two separate occasions. So that's a wash too.

Going by those metrics, I'd say they are equally dominant over their competition.

Crouser bests him with 3 golds and plenty of WRs.

Great analysis. As a tie breaker I'd add in that Mondo won the diamond league in 2021, 2022, and 2023 while Crouser only won it in 2021 (was 2nd in 2022 and 2023).

I feel Mondo would have won a lot of his competitions by more if it were more like shot put or the horizontal jumps, where you are credited with the absolute high height you achieve, not the height of the bar you go over. Example, in 21 Mondo won by 0.8% - he won by the minimum amount needed, then moved the bar up to a world record height, which he missed. He certainly would have won by more than 0.8% if he pushed the bar up less than to WR height. I also feel both in pole vault and hurdles, its easier for something just to go wrong on a certain day resulting in a DNF or no height, making Edwin Moses's record so incredible. I feel that less likely in the shot put, but I'm not a thrower so I wouldn't really know.

Either way, I'd give the career edge to Crouser, I think Mondo has caught him in terms of current dominance. It will be interesting to see where their careers go from here. I feel longevity is easier in the shot put, but Crouser is 7 years older. Mondo feels like a more sure bet to win LA28 than Crouser at this point.

Mondo has also won World Athlete of the year 3 times, to Crouser's zero.

Most Male World Athlete of the Year awards (awarded since 1988):

Usain Bolt - 6

Hicham El Guerrouj - 3

Mondo - 3

Kipchoge - 2

K. Bekele - 2

Michael Johnson - 2

Carl Lewis - 2

Multiple time women's world athlete of the year awards:

Yelena Isinbayeva - 3

Yulimar Rojas - 2

Sanya Richards - 2

Marion Jones - 2 (she initially won a third, which was stripped)

El G, Bekele, Bolt, please....discuss REAL events not a niche pole sport.

Thank you! You make a great point about competition format and Mondo being able to win by a wider margin in 2021. On the other hand, I think Mondo benefits from the competition format. He can skip heights and use his early attempts as a warmup until the competition starts getting serious. Crouser has no such luxury. He needs to give it his all on every attempt because he doesn't know what will wind up being his best throw, and he can't predict when his competitors might launch a big one. That makes the shot put more challenging to win, in my opinion.

I'm hoping Crouser can keep it going through LA and match Al Oerter and Carl Lewis as the only track & field athletes to achieve the 4-peat. He'll be 35 then, which is the same age Kovacs is now.

It's hard to compare eras with the steady improvements in equipment. Just wait 'til Crouser gets his hands on the new fiber glass shot.

I'm a little salty on AOY awards because I strongly believe Crouser got robbed last year. I previously wrote a thorough explanation on this board on why Crouser should have won last year over Mondo, Lyles, and Kiptum, so I won't get into that again.

One of Mondo's awards came in 2020, so that one has an asterisk in my view.

I think losing the DL lost Crouser the award last year. An even better case could have been made for Crouser in 2021, but that was Warholm's year.

Track and Field News AOY multiple winners: (Mondo or Crouser wins one more and they join the 3timer club of Rudisha, El Guerrouj, and Carl Lewis)

Rudisha - 3

El Guerrouj - 3

Carl Lewis - 3

Mondo - 2

Crouser - 2

Bolt - 2

K Bekele - 2

Gebreselassie - 2

Michael Johnson - 2

Morceli - 2

Bubka - 2

Aouita - 2

Coe - 2

Juantorena - 2

Ryun - 2

Snell - 2

Bolt, Johnson, or Lewis for MEN'S T, Mondo is certainly in there for the F though, damn Beamon sure that record a while

9.58

He’s not even the best pole vaulter ever.

- Bubka

Eh, Kendricks has more olympic medals. Mondo cleared 6m as many times tonight than bubka did in his entire career in global championships.