davebedfordwannabe wrote:
You're right. I am a holier-than-thou-antagonistic jerk, which is true of a lot of other people on this forum.
Nice. You're a real class act, Davebedfordwannabe. Thank you for making the LetsRun.com message boards a better place!
Have you ever stopped to consider that as a result, your attitude significantly tarnishes your credibility?
milefan wrote:
International 7/26/70 Moscow 1500 Meters 3:44.9 1st
Bislett Games 8/3/72 Oslo 3000 Meters 7:44.2(AR) 1st
Pre-Olympic 8/24/72 Munich 2 Mile 8:19.4(AR) 1st
Olympic Prelim Heat 9/7/72 Munich 5000 Meters 13:32.6 2nd
Olympic Finals 9/10/72 Munich 5000 Meters 13:28.3 4th
Zauli Memorial 9/13/72 Rome 5000 Meters 13:26.4 2nd
Coca-Cola 9/15/72 London 2 Mile 8:24.8 2nd
International 6/23/73 Helsinki 1500 Meters 3:43.1 3rd
World Games 6/27/73 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:22.4(AR) 2nd
International 6/23/73 Helsinki 1500 Meters 3:43.1 3rd
World Games 6/27/73 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:22.4(AR) 2nd
International 6/18/74 Tampere 3000 Meters 7:55.8 1st
International 6/20/74 Kauhava 3000 Meters 8:00.4 1st
International 6/22/74 Saarijarvi 3000 Meters 8:07.4 1st
World Games 6/26/74 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:21.9(AR) 2nd
International 7/2/74 Milan 3000 Meters 7:42.6(AR) 2nd
International 7/9/74 Varkaus 3000 Meters 7:57.4 1st
International 7/14/74 Joutseno 5000 Meters 13:55.6 1st
July Games 7/18/74 Stockholm 2 Mile 8:18.4(AR) 3rd
International 9/10/74 Helsinki 5000 Meters 13:27.4 3rd
Coca-Cola 9/13/74 London 2 Mile Did Not Finish DNF
Until we figure out who was in these races, you cannot say "he didn't beat anyone". Without this information, your claims have no merit.
I said he never won a major international race, not that he never came ahead of someone "notable." There's a big difference there.
Now, note the crazy logic of some of the Pre supporters on here. According to them, I'm not as ignorant of Pre's international record as I claimed to be at the beginning and I clearly was setting them up. But according to them, I'm also ignorant of Pre's international record.
These guys' own contradictory statements undermine their credibility far better than I ever could.
It never ceases to amaze my how often a message board "troll" will completely ignore a logical post in order to continue their petty little arguments. Therefore, I will repeat what I said...
davebedfordwannabe wrote:
You're right. I am a holier-than-thou-antagonistic jerk, which is true of a lot of other people on this forum.
Run5k wrote:
Nice. You're a real class act, Davebedfordwannabe. Thank you for making the LetsRun.com message boards a better place!
Have you ever stopped to consider that as a result, your attitude significantly tarnishes your credibility?
Your post states "Did Prefontaine ever win a race internationally?"
I listed his victories in several international races.
This is the part where you say those weren't "major european races" right???
Good job quoting yourself, you stupid-idiot. You add just as little as he does and are (From past threads) just as much of a troll as dave. This is a ridiculous thread and between fulltime ego trip poster, Run5k, and Dave's constant reinterpretation of his OWN WORDS, I think this is one that deserves to be dropped and forgotten. FOREVER. I mean come on...another Pre argument? Pff! Could there be any easier a way to make the Letsrun board mundane?
Hey Dave- remember when I mentioned a few posts back about letsrun retards? I meant all the guys who are attacking you personally.
Seriously- it\'s a message board. For all I know, you guys are all volunteers at the local red cross who teach at a school for the blind and have adopted kids from third world countries. Whether you\'re attacking Dave or Dave is attacking you, what\'s the point of getting personal?
I have nothing against anyone on this board, and no one should have anything agaisnt me- let\'s just dicuss the topic at hand.
Peace on letsrun, anybody?
By the way, to fair to Pre- many of his American records were set in European races that he lost. In America, when he was winning, he just didn\'t have the competition most of the time. Dick Buekle could get him on a good day and Shorter was always good for an intense race, but aside from that, Pre had to step down to the mile to get any real competition in America. In Europe, however, he had to contend with guys like Brendan Foster or Bedford or Yifter or Dixon or any of the other guys who beat him often over there. When he did race them, he\'d run faster than any American has ever run before, yet still lose. That to me speaks more to the caliber of competition than any of Pre\'s supposed failings.
When he did race them, he'd run faster than any American has ever run before, yet still lose. That to me speaks more to the caliber of competition than any of Pre's supposed failings.
Since when did losing races become a bad thing? . Almost everyone loses the races in which they PR. It's very crowded at the top. The higher you move up in calibur, the harder it is to win. Pre's career, by any measure, was outstanding. When Pre lost a race, it was always close, and he NEVER choked. You can never say that about Bedford.
PR's
1500 m 3:38.1h 11 Helsinki 28 Jun 1973
One Mile 3:54.6h 2 Eugene OR 20 Jun 1973
2000 m 5:01.4h 1 Coos Bay 9 May 1975
3000 m 7:42.6h 2 Milano 2 Jul 1974
Two Miles 8:18.29 3 Stockholm 18 Jul 1974
Indoor 8:20.4h 1 San Diego CA 17 Feb 1974
5000 m 13:21.87 2 Helsinki 26 Jun 1974
10000 m 27:43.6h 1 Eugene OR 27 Apr 1974
Craig. Thanks for being the voice of reason around here. You summed it up much better than I ever could.
davebedfordwannabe wrote:
You summed it up much better than I ever could.
That's not saying much!
CraigMac4H (Forgot to sign in) wrote:
Hey Dave- remember when I mentioned a few posts back about letsrun retards? I meant all the guys who are attacking you personally.
I'm sorry Craig, but as the old saying goes, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kictchen."
If Dave is going to be coming onto the message boards intentionally trying to start up an argument with his little mind games, he had better be willing to accept the negative reaction that comes along with it!
So if I was playing mind games, that must mean that I was only pretending to be ignorant of Pre's international achievements, right? In other words, I must have known all along that he never won a big race in Europe, and I must have simply wanted Pre worshipers to try to prove otherwise.
Pre was a first-rate American runner. But because he never won a major international race, he can't be considered one of the best international runners of his era.
From Urban Dictionary wrote:
You add just as little as he does and are (From past threads) just as much of a troll as dave.
You should really consider using the Urban Dictionary a bit more often, since your post obviously adds SO much more to this particular thread...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hypocriteBelieve me, I've got a clear conscience. I tried to be reasonable with Dave, but instead he just switched to yet another immature attitude, essentially claiming that since everyone ELSE is doing it, so it must be all right for HIM to act like a jerk, too.
As for me, if you will do a little bit of research, you will find that my past history of "conflict" on these boards is littered with examples of defending prominent distances runners (both living and deceased) from know-it-all attackers. I don't start arguments, but I won't back down from one either. If that makes ME a troll, than you have some serious issues.
Dont feed the troll!
Gio wrote:
Dont feed the troll!
I totally agree. The topic creator was obviously just tryin to get folks pissed off. If he wanted real answers, he wouldve asked real questions in the first place.
Cliché wrote:
If Dave is going to be coming onto the message boards intentionally trying to start up an argument with his little mind games, he had better be willing to accept the negative reaction that comes along with it!
I was using the Platonic method to help Pre worshipers arrive at the answer to whether Pre was as good as the best of his era.
Even though the personal attacks continue, no one seems to argue with the obvious answer. So I'm satisfied.
Now here's a true story: I saw Pre drop out of a six-mile race in Dallas in January 1975 that Gary Tuttle won against Shorter, Kardong, Geis, Philip Ndoo (a Kenyan at Eastern New Mexico State who died recently), and others. The fact that Pre dropped out was a slap in the face to Tuttle.
The race was in connection with the famous Cooper's Clinic study. Sports Illustrated did an article of the study and reported Prefontaine's VO2 Max as being off the charts at 84 or something. The article also covered the six mile race, but it neglected to mention that Pre dropped out. (Am I the only guy on this forum who saw Pre drop out of a race?)
Anyway, unlike a lot of the Pre worshipers on here, I don't have a framed photo of Pre's eyes from that Nike advertisement on my wall. But I wouldn't mind having a photo of Juha Vaatainen, who ran the last lap of his historic 1971 European Championships 10,000 in 53.8 seconds.
Prewannabe:
"Since when did losing races become a bad thing? . Almost everyone loses the races in which they PR. It's very crowded at the top. The higher you move up in calibur, the harder it is to win. Pre's career, by any measure, was outstanding. When Pre lost a race, it was always close, and he NEVER choked. You can never say that about Bedford."
Um, I think you misinterpreted my statement. I was defending Pre- I said that if he was setting American Records in these deep international fields, then him not winning isn't a huge deal. My point was exactly that while Pre DIDNT win a lot of deep international races, the deep competition in those fields spurred him to run faster than ANY AMERICAN HAD EVER RUN. I was pointing out that those performances were extremely impressive, even though he didn't win.
Blah, blah, blah.