I don't know why this thread is making this so complicated. Kerr is effectively saying he doesn't necessarily have more natural talent than some of his competitors - who are also amongst the best in the world - but he knows how to maximise the talent he has. He has sporting intelligence. The best usually do.
yeah, of course he's talented, He's world-class runner FFS. It's just that he's not as talented or even untalented among the top in the world
It always strikes me how people that are physically very gifted - beyond any doubt - want to attribute their success to factors like mental strength and hard work.
Without mental strength and hard work being gifted doesn't take you anywhere.
This post was edited 11 seconds after it was posted.
Being able to run a single 400m in 56s takes a lot of talent. Being able to do it 4 times in a row without stopping takes god-tier talent.
He acts like he is that high school kid who struggled to break 6 in the mile his freshman year and heroically breaks 5 in the last meet of his senior year. What a clown. I will continue to root against him.
Okay so we are agreeing that Tiger Woods is a massive product of his environment right - I think anyone that watched the HBO documentary would agree on that. And sure - I used the most extreme example in terms of an athlete there has ever been.
We can totally agree to disagree on the part of especially teenage races being decided by mental toughness. Because by these ages the physical talent is rising to the top it is the ones that are harnessed the best in the face of a million different other things in life going on (school, sport choices, drinking, romances etc etc etc) that are your winners and this is not a physical thing. For me, being able to navigate all these things and be dedicated enough to physically evolve oneself to the level you are the best on race day (and hence "decide" the race) is a tangible that isn't physical.
Kerr’s innate steel was forged in Edinburgh by his father, a former professional rugby player, and mother Jill, a physio. “I just wanted to be the best in the world at something,” Kerr says. He wanted it to be rugby — his brother Jake has played for Scotland — but by the age of eight he was shedding other sports.
Couple of key takeaways - he dreamt/had aspirations of being the best in the world at something - which even though the age isn't given when these began it's not unusual for these dreams - no matter how lofty at the time, to start forming even as a pre-teen. And by the age of 8 was beginning to already "shed" other sports (presumably to focus more on what was likely his best sport at the time - track).
Fitness, which determines success in this sport comes from the ability to harness and maximize ones talent and the snowball effect of years doing so. The resiliency to keep at this is far beyond a set of lungs.
I think this is all fair. I don't think we are disagreeing, it is more when you get to this sub-3:35 level i think most of this has already taken care of itself. So to me the bigger differentiator will be talent, discipline and preparation, not mental toughness. You say resiliency or mental toughness but Id lean more towards discipline and talent. Why did Kerr stink in 2022 you might ask. His mental toughness was great, his discipline was bad. Why has Kenenisa Bekeles career gone all over the place while the less talented Eliud Kipchoge is remarkably consistent. It’s all discipline. Right now Kerr has narrowed the gap to Jakob because his discipline now rivals Jakobs. And I think someone like George Mills gets literally everything out of himself living like a monk, but i do not see him ever closing the gap on those two because of his talent disadvantage.
Being able to run a single 400m in 56s takes a lot of talent. Being able to do it 4 times in a row without stopping takes god-tier talent.
He acts like he is that high school kid who struggled to break 6 in the mile his freshman year and heroically breaks 5 in the last meet of his senior year. What a clown. I will continue to root against him.
You don't understand what he is saying. He isn't comparing himself to people he would never race against but those he does.
Okay so we are agreeing that Tiger Woods is a massive product of his environment right - I think anyone that watched the HBO documentary would agree on that. And sure - I used the most extreme example in terms of an athlete there has ever been.
We can totally agree to disagree on the part of especially teenage races being decided by mental toughness. Because by these ages the physical talent is rising to the top it is the ones that are harnessed the best in the face of a million different other things in life going on (school, sport choices, drinking, romances etc etc etc) that are your winners and this is not a physical thing. For me, being able to navigate all these things and be dedicated enough to physically evolve oneself to the level you are the best on race day (and hence "decide" the race) is a tangible that isn't physical.
Kerr’s innate steel was forged in Edinburgh by his father, a former professional rugby player, and mother Jill, a physio. “I just wanted to be the best in the world at something,” Kerr says. He wanted it to be rugby — his brother Jake has played for Scotland — but by the age of eight he was shedding other sports.
Couple of key takeaways - he dreamt/had aspirations of being the best in the world at something - which even though the age isn't given when these began it's not unusual for these dreams - no matter how lofty at the time, to start forming even as a pre-teen. And by the age of 8 was beginning to already "shed" other sports (presumably to focus more on what was likely his best sport at the time - track).
Fitness, which determines success in this sport comes from the ability to harness and maximize ones talent and the snowball effect of years doing so. The resiliency to keep at this is far beyond a set of lungs.
I think this is all fair. I don't think we are disagreeing, it is more when you get to this sub-3:35 level i think most of this has already taken care of itself. So to me the bigger differentiator will be talent, discipline and preparation, not mental toughness. You say resiliency or mental toughness but Id lean more towards discipline and talent. Why did Kerr stink in 2022 you might ask. His mental toughness was great, his discipline was bad. Why has Kenenisa Bekeles career gone all over the place while the less talented Eliud Kipchoge is remarkably consistent. It’s all discipline. Right now Kerr has narrowed the gap to Jakob because his discipline now rivals Jakobs. And I think someone like George Mills gets literally everything out of himself living like a monk, but i do not see him ever closing the gap on those two because of his talent disadvantage.
I don't know why this thread is making this so complicated. Kerr is effectively saying he doesn't necessarily have more natural talent than some of his competitors - who are also amongst the best in the world - but he knows how to maximise the talent he has. He has sporting intelligence. The best usually do.
yeah, of course he's talented, He's world-class runner FFS. It's just that he's not as talented or even untalented among the top in the world
His not rating himself as especially talented amongst his peers stands in contrast to the attitude of another runner who says he can win "in his sleep" and only loses to the "next guy".
I think this is all fair. I don't think we are disagreeing, it is more when you get to this sub-3:35 level i think most of this has already taken care of itself. So to me the bigger differentiator will be talent, discipline and preparation, not mental toughness. You say resiliency or mental toughness but Id lean more towards discipline and talent. Why did Kerr stink in 2022 you might ask. His mental toughness was great, his discipline was bad. Why has Kenenisa Bekeles career gone all over the place while the less talented Eliud Kipchoge is remarkably consistent. It’s all discipline. Right now Kerr has narrowed the gap to Jakob because his discipline now rivals Jakobs. And I think someone like George Mills gets literally everything out of himself living like a monk, but i do not see him ever closing the gap on those two because of his talent disadvantage.
His not rating himself as especially talented amongst his peers stands in contrast to the attitude of another runner who says he can win "in his sleep" and only loses to the "next guy".
No it doesn't. It called humblebrag. Just another form of arrogance.
yeah, of course he's talented, He's world-class runner FFS. It's just that he's not as talented or even untalented among the top in the world
His not rating himself as especially talented amongst his peers stands in contrast to the attitude of another runner who says he can win "in his sleep" and only loses to the "next guy".
When I saw their workouts before Pre, I knew Kerr would eat Jakob for breakfast. Jakob was doing 400m at "threshold " comfortably, while Kerr was busting his ass on those 600-400-200, honing his speed endurance. Of course guys like Kerr and Wightman and the next guys beat him.
Okay so we are agreeing that Tiger Woods is a massive product of his environment right - I think anyone that watched the HBO documentary would agree on that. And sure - I used the most extreme example in terms of an athlete there has ever been.
We can totally agree to disagree on the part of especially teenage races being decided by mental toughness. Because by these ages the physical talent is rising to the top it is the ones that are harnessed the best in the face of a million different other things in life going on (school, sport choices, drinking, romances etc etc etc) that are your winners and this is not a physical thing. For me, being able to navigate all these things and be dedicated enough to physically evolve oneself to the level you are the best on race day (and hence "decide" the race) is a tangible that isn't physical.
Kerr’s innate steel was forged in Edinburgh by his father, a former professional rugby player, and mother Jill, a physio. “I just wanted to be the best in the world at something,” Kerr says. He wanted it to be rugby — his brother Jake has played for Scotland — but by the age of eight he was shedding other sports.
Couple of key takeaways - he dreamt/had aspirations of being the best in the world at something - which even though the age isn't given when these began it's not unusual for these dreams - no matter how lofty at the time, to start forming even as a pre-teen. And by the age of 8 was beginning to already "shed" other sports (presumably to focus more on what was likely his best sport at the time - track).
Fitness, which determines success in this sport comes from the ability to harness and maximize ones talent and the snowball effect of years doing so. The resiliency to keep at this is far beyond a set of lungs.
I think this is all fair. I don't think we are disagreeing, it is more when you get to this sub-3:35 level i think most of this has already taken care of itself. So to me the bigger differentiator will be talent, discipline and preparation, not mental toughness. You say resiliency or mental toughness but Id lean more towards discipline and talent. Why did Kerr stink in 2022 you might ask. His mental toughness was great, his discipline was bad. Why has Kenenisa Bekeles career gone all over the place while the less talented Eliud Kipchoge is remarkably consistent. It’s all discipline. Right now Kerr has narrowed the gap to Jakob because his discipline now rivals Jakobs. And I think someone like George Mills gets literally everything out of himself living like a monk, but i do not see him ever closing the gap on those two because of his talent disadvantage.
Your use of "discipline" is someone else's "mental toughness". Discipline is a mental skill.
His not rating himself as especially talented amongst his peers stands in contrast to the attitude of another runner who says he can win "in his sleep" and only loses to the "next guy".
No it doesn't. It called humblebrag. Just another form of arrogance.
You have to be a Jakob fan or you are simply not very bright. Kerr hasn't minimised or downplayed his gifts; he has avoided blowing his own trumpet. But puffing your chest out is what you probably think top athletes should do.
No it doesn't. It called humblebrag. Just another form of arrogance.
You have to be a Jakob fan or you are simply not very bright. Kerr hasn't minimised or downplayed his gifts; he has avoided blowing his own trumpet. But puffing your chest out is what you probably think top athletes should do.
You are an idiot if you think you know anything about me. But you prove that every day so it's no surprise.
Being able to run a single 400m in 56s takes a lot of talent. Being able to do it 4 times in a row without stopping takes god-tier talent.
He acts like he is that high school kid who struggled to break 6 in the mile his freshman year and heroically breaks 5 in the last meet of his senior year. What a clown. I will continue to root against him.
You don't understand what he is saying. He isn't comparing himself to people he would never race against but those he does.
Sometimes this is just a function of the day. Sometime Kerr (despite all his mental strength) is going to get beat by another equally talented guy who is having a good day when Kerr might not be on top of his game.
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