The difference is Kerr and others can win the 1500 if it’s a slow pace. Jakob cannot. He can only win if it’s fast and if he has pacers. He knows this. That’s why he gets so ornery every time he gets asked about it.
Guy who closed a 3:35 race in sub-52 while running wide and asking the crowd for more noise lacks the speed to win if it’s a slow pace. Ok dude.
He isn’t wrong. Jakob is good for the sport because he races so often. Not a fan of anyone that hides away training all year to show up for only a couple races.
You care as much as all of the Ingy and Kerr fans. They hope for their boy, You hope Ingy loses (because he is a doper and talks a lot) and another doper - according to you - wins.
I simply like to present a more accurate view than the simpering adulation typical of this site.
Nope, because I can always count on a loss when he most doesn't want it.
Jakob wants to win every race equally as badly. He is not like the guys who only race a few times and don’t care about half of those races. He fully cares about every single race he runs and 100% wants to win each of them. To say that he most doesn’t want to lose a single race would imply that he’s at least slightly okay with losing any other race, which we know to be false. He will never be okay with losing any race.
He cares so much he can't give credit to those that beat him and continues to obsess about his losses, as these latest comments of his show.
The cold hard truth is Jakob needs pacers to win global championships. When he won in Tokyo, Tim was his de facto pacer. When he won the 5000 races in Eugene and Budapest, others served as his de facto pacers. He cannot win a global championship 1500 running from the front the whole race.
Useless post. Some very high percentage of gold medals are won by people who don't lead the whole race and thus, by your definition, rely on pacers -- including Kerr every time! (Either following Jakob or Grant)
I think Jakob's comments here are spot on -- it hurts some people here all the more because it has the power of being true. Look at Oslo. Look at Euros. Look at last night.
Meanwhile, Josh...Josh?
You failed to understand what he was saying. Jakob needs pacers to run a fast enough race to lose the kickers. Few championship finals are run that way. He is clearly vulnerable to runners with a better kick.
The difference is Kerr and others can win the 1500 if it’s a slow pace. Jakob cannot. He can only win if it’s fast and if he has pacers. He knows this. That’s why he gets so ornery every time he gets asked about it.
Guy who closed a 3:35 race in sub-52 while running wide and asking the crowd for more noise lacks the speed to win if it’s a slow pace. Ok dude.
He hasn't run sub-52 finishing a 1500. This is a guy who hasn't got near to getting below 1:46 for the 800.
The difference is Kerr and others can win the 1500 if it’s a slow pace. Jakob cannot. He can only win if it’s fast and if he has pacers. He knows this. That’s why he gets so ornery every time he gets asked about it.
"Kerr and others" -- actually, only one person can win the race, even if it's a slow race. You're presumably throwing Kerr, Wightman, Hocker (?), Tim C (?) into a "non-Jakob" category and making it an either-or situation related to whether Jakob wins or not.
But say Kerr gets gold and Jakob gets a close silver -- then you'll presumably say you were that all along even though Jakob out kicked multiple "others" who you claim can win a slow 1500. This is exactly what happened in Budapest. And if Tim C gets gold and Jakob silver, you presumably won't eat any crow about how Jakob has outkicked Josh.
I disagree with your basic premise, mind you, because I think that Jakob *can* win without "pacers." That's not to say that he has to lead the entire 1500 meters.
But it's a moot point. What Jakob said is accurate until Josh or somebody can prove that they can repeatedly show up and beat him every time
Kerr has beaten him 2 races in a row so it’s not a moot point.
Talking about the Diamond League races is an evasion of the question. The question he was asked was about championship racing.
Unless there’s someone else willing to take it out fast and lead like Tim did in Tokyo, Jakob cannot and will not win a global championship 1500. We have the last two years as proof.
If it’s a slow race like when Centro won in 2016, Jakob won’t even be on the podium.
Guy who closed a 3:35 race in sub-52 while running wide and asking the crowd for more noise lacks the speed to win if it’s a slow pace. Ok dude.
He hasn't run sub-52 finishing a 1500. This is a guy who hasn't got near to getting below 1:46 for the 800.
Jakob hasn’t raced an 800 in years because he doesn’t care for the distance and he just has no reason to. His PRs at every other distance have improved since then. Obviously his 800 PR has too. Saying he hasn’t come close implies he has attempted to but couldn’t.
"Kerr and others" -- actually, only one person can win the race, even if it's a slow race. You're presumably throwing Kerr, Wightman, Hocker (?), Tim C (?) into a "non-Jakob" category and making it an either-or situation related to whether Jakob wins or not.
But say Kerr gets gold and Jakob gets a close silver -- then you'll presumably say you were that all along even though Jakob out kicked multiple "others" who you claim can win a slow 1500. This is exactly what happened in Budapest. And if Tim C gets gold and Jakob silver, you presumably won't eat any crow about how Jakob has outkicked Josh.
I disagree with your basic premise, mind you, because I think that Jakob *can* win without "pacers." That's not to say that he has to lead the entire 1500 meters.
But it's a moot point. What Jakob said is accurate until Josh or somebody can prove that they can repeatedly show up and beat him every time
Kerr has beaten him 2 races in a row so it’s not a moot point.
Talking about the Diamond League races is an evasion of the question. The question he was asked was about championship racing.
Unless there’s someone else willing to take it out fast and lead like Tim did in Tokyo, Jakob cannot and will not win a global championship 1500. We have the last two years as proof.
If it’s a slow race like when Centro won in 2016, Jakob won’t even be on the podium.
You're conflating Kerr and Wightman to build your narrative. Kerr has beat Jakob exactly one time in a row at a meet that you seem to care about (not Pre).
But Jakob beat Kerr both in Tokyo and in 2022 Worlds. And Jakob lost to Wightman only once.
So again, you're lionizing Kerr more than he's earned and you're holding Jakob to a higher standard than anyone else.
Also, Jakob is clearly better right now than he was last year, so your premise that he can't beat Kerr in a 1500 final by frontrunning is quite speculative and backward-looking and certainly not a fact of life.
Kerr didn't even outkick Jakob at Pre! He took the lead with 600 to go and hung on. Then he disappeared.
Unrelatedly, meets like Monaco may not be "championship" races, but they're like the All-Star game or a huge regular season game. You should expect your sport's biggest stars to show up. Jakob does almost without fail.
So I don't really care what the question was, but the point that Jakob was making is 100% valid
here is where the strategy comes in. For a fast race, it is him and maybe one or two other people. Very good odds.
in a slow race, you roll the dice with positioning as you allow SEVERAL other people in the race. You basically double your amount of competitors, cutting your odds in half-or thereabout.
if you decide to let the race go slow, god help you if five people make a move before you and swallow you into a box that you might not get out of before somebody takes off and opens up an insurmountable gap.
He's just playing the odds.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Of course I’m holding Jakob to a higher standard. He himself says he’s better than everyone and can beat people blindfolded. His fanboys call him the GOAT. Those things get someone to be held to a higher standard.
You say Jakob is better now. Has Kerr not shown he’s better this year?
The way Kerr beat Jakob at Pre should be giving you nightmares. It showed he can beat Jakob more than one way. Jakob can only win a global championship 1500 one way, which is a fast race with pacers. No pacing help, no 1500 win for poor Jakob.
Of course I’m holding Jakob to a higher standard. He himself says he’s better than everyone and can beat people blindfolded. His fanboys call him the GOAT. Those things get someone to be held to a higher standard.
You say Jakob is better now. Has Kerr not shown he’s better this year?
The way Kerr beat Jakob at Pre should be giving you nightmares. It showed he can beat Jakob more than one way. Jakob can only win a global championship 1500 one way, which is a fast race with pacers. No pacing help, no 1500 win for poor Jakob.
No nightmares for me because I'm not a Jakob fanboy, just annoyed by people's tired talking points about Kerr.
Yes, Kerr looks better this year than last year, but Jakob was clearly better than Kerr last year anyway. Kerr won a great race over Jakob, which happens in this sport. You're making it sound like an absolute that if you replayed that 100 times, Kerr would win it every time and I don't think that's remotely the case (and I'm not even touching the possibility that Jakob wasn't 100% for that race).
Frankly, I was quite impressed with Jakob's performance at Pre considering he hadn't raced in so long and it seemed very possible to me that he would get his butt kicked. He didn't, and he's clearly improved a lot since that race.
It seems like your main argument here is that Jakob can't win the 1500 because nobody is going to "pace" for him, he can't lead for the whole thing and if he let's someone else do the pacing, he won't be able to handle the big kickers.
I, meanwhile, think he's probably going to win in Paris because he's just too strong for everyone else, including Kerr. But I allow he may lose. Maybe I'll put his odds at 60% chance of winning.
Of course I’m holding Jakob to a higher standard. He himself says he’s better than everyone and can beat people blindfolded. His fanboys call him the GOAT. Those things get someone to be held to a higher standard.
You say Jakob is better now. Has Kerr not shown he’s better this year?
The way Kerr beat Jakob at Pre should be giving you nightmares. It showed he can beat Jakob more than one way. Jakob can only win a global championship 1500 one way, which is a fast race with pacers. No pacing help, no 1500 win for poor Jakob.
No nightmares for me because I'm not a Jakob fanboy, just annoyed by people's tired talking points about Kerr.
Yes, Kerr looks better this year than last year, but Jakob was clearly better than Kerr last year anyway. Kerr won a great race over Jakob, which happens in this sport. You're making it sound like an absolute that if you replayed that 100 times, Kerr would win it every time and I don't think that's remotely the case (and I'm not even touching the possibility that Jakob wasn't 100% for that race).
Frankly, I was quite impressed with Jakob's performance at Pre considering he hadn't raced in so long and it seemed very possible to me that he would get his butt kicked. He didn't, and he's clearly improved a lot since that race.
It seems like your main argument here is that Jakob can't win the 1500 because nobody is going to "pace" for him, he can't lead for the whole thing and if he let's someone else do the pacing, he won't be able to handle the big kickers.
I, meanwhile, think he's probably going to win in Paris because he's just too strong for everyone else, including Kerr. But I allow he may lose. Maybe I'll put his odds at 60% chance of winning.
What odds do you give Jakob of winning?
Jakob was 100% ill in Budapest. Everybody, including his wife, brothers, team management, Norweigan Commentators, The norweigan team doctor, all norweigan presses, said this. It is not a moot point and Kerr got him when he was below his best.
It’s hard to give him odds because I don’t know how the race will play out. Tim is the wild card. If Tim runs fast from the front like he did in Tokyo, then the odds of Jakob winning are 99%. If nobody sets a fast pace for Jakob, his odds plummet to just 1%.
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