In the midst of 120 mile weeks done in six days, 7000ft+ of elevation gain weekly, and living and training in Park City, he just ran a 12 mile tempo at 4:46avg at 4500 feet. Expect great things in Paris!
I already expect great things from him. I think he is going to do well on that difficult marathon course. Rumor is that it is going to be mental race, and I think that is in Mantz's favor. I think he will run for broke and come up big. I am excited to watch both marathons. I think our women will do well too.
Mantz will break top10.. The women will not do anything extraordinary, they are not good and will be drinking beer for the cameras after the race and for their IG posts.
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
In the midst of 120 mile weeks done in six days, 7000ft+ of elevation gain weekly, and living and training in Park City, he just ran a 12 mile tempo at 4:46avg at 4500 feet. Expect great things in Paris!
I already expect great things from him. I think he is going to do well on that difficult marathon course. Rumor is that it is going to be mental race, and I think that is in Mantz's favor. I think he will run for broke and come up big. I am excited to watch both marathons. I think our women will do well too.
According to Dr. Vigil Hall ran 4:39 avg for 17 miles prior to London his 2:06) and Meb were doing the same pace for 18 miles at 8000 ft in Mammoth during their preps
Still solid work.
dr, vigil uses an altitude conversion for ALL his athlete's hard efforts- especially mile repeats and tempos above a certain altitude. our repeats at the park in alamosa were all done according to this formula. what i'm saying is that hall's tempo effort at 8000ft was not actually 4:39. that is very much likely a converted time.
He's in good shape but it's a good thing he has time to recover because this kind of hero workout often leaves you flat for the race.
If I've learned anything from the Keeping Up with the Mormons videos Clayton Young is posting on youtube, no one is a bigger workout hero that Mantz (and few people are more insufferable, clout gobblins than Linkletter)
This is a hilarious and underrated comment. “Keeping up with the Mormons” is brilliant. Totally true on Mantz being a workout hero. Clayton has got to be so annoyed when every freaking day Mantz goes harder than prescribed. Suspect he races with a massive chip on his shoulder and passes a gassed Mantz at mile 24.
The tougher and more mental the race, which Paris will be, the more I favor the BYU duo to place well. I wouldn't be surprised to see them both in serious contention for medal spots as late as Mile 23-24. They are smart with a good coach and complement each other's training and racing strengths/weaknesses well. If they can find a way to work together on race day, they will both be tough to beat.
That’s kind of like what people have been saying in the Valby thread. Young and Mantz have marathon PRs significantly slower than many of the others in the race, and will not be in contention, at 23-24 miles. They will probably try to maximize their finishing times and go for the highest places possible, which might be in the top 10, but probably top 20.
The other runners are smart, have good coaching and are just as tough mentally, as Young and Mantz.
That's a solid workout, but nothing I wouldn't expect an altitude-trained 60-minute half guy to be able to do. It's basically 12 miles at goal marathon pace. 4500 feet takes a bit out of you, but it feels closer to sea level than it does to 7000.
It was literally a PMP. That was the workout.
Why do people not define acronyms? It drives me crazy. PMP is what, practice marathon pace? Either way why do you assume we all knows what it means? We're not all marathoners.
In the midst of 120 mile weeks done in six days, 7000ft+ of elevation gain weekly, and living and training in Park City, he just ran a 12 mile tempo at 4:46avg at 4500 feet. Expect great things in Paris!
that's not a tempo for someone of his ability. more like a time trial.
Hmmm...
And per your "high school xc coach" expertise which clearly is superior to Conner and his coach, Ed Eyestone (2 x Olympian), please clarify "his ability" and how that differentiates a tempo run and time trial?
I'm pretty sure Connor and Clayton will be well prepared for Paris. How they run remains to be seen, but they will be as ready as possible. I believe both will be in the top 10.
My money's on Clayton finishing in front (of him) in Paris.
I had Clayton ahead of him after seeing the trials. The more I looked at the Paris course though, this plays went into Mantz’s strengths. A hillier course does better for scrappier/cross country type runners. I hope this race is gruesome because it will only help Mantz. Think how Molly Seidel medaled
You mean using the strength/scrappiness he showed when nearly passing out at Boston where he was 3rd American in 2022(?) or where he was escorted to the line by Young at the Trials? Those are tough, rolling races. Mantz does a great job of racing cross where the race is 28 min, agreed. But to say his xc success translates to a tough marathon course is perhaps a myth. His best marathon efforts are flat. His best bet, as another poster pointed out, is to hopefully shorten the race as much as possible until mile 17-19. Clayton seems patient, both with training and racing... guess we'll see which approach generates more success.
The tougher and more mental the race, which Paris will be, the more I favor the BYU duo to place well. I wouldn't be surprised to see them both in serious contention for medal spots as late as Mile 23-24. They are smart with a good coach and complement each other's training and racing strengths/weaknesses well. If they can find a way to work together on race day, they will both be tough to beat.
That’s kind of like what people have been saying in the Valby thread. Young and Mantz have marathon PRs significantly slower than many of the others in the race, and will not be in contention, at 23-24 miles. They will probably try to maximize their finishing times and go for the highest places possible, which might be in the top 10, but probably top 20.
The other runners are smart, have good coaching and are just as tough mentally, as Young and Mantz.
I mean, the olympic marathon is just a different beast. By your logic how did Jared Ward finish 6th in Rio in 2016? He beat Lemi Berhanu (13th that year) who was a 2:04 guy who won boston that year. He beat Stephen Kiprotich (14th) who was a 2:06 guy and gold medalist in 2012.
This is a hilarious and underrated comment. “Keeping up with the Mormons” is brilliant. Totally true on Mantz being a workout hero. Clayton has got to be so annoyed when every freaking day Mantz goes harder than prescribed. Suspect he races with a massive chip on his shoulder and passes a gassed Mantz at mile 24.
12M@4:46/M is 1:02:28 half marathon pace, 2:05:56 MP. That is two minutes faster than his marathon pr and only 90s slower than his half marathon pr. So, if it were at sea level it would be pretty close to a half marathon time trial and well ahead of marathon pace. But it was at 4500 feet. 12M@4:46/M (57:12) at 4500 feet converts to 54:59 at sea level. That is 4:35/M, roughly American record pace. So, it was essentially a half marathon time trial at faster than pr pace for 12/13.1 of the way. He's in good shape but it's a good thing he has time to recover because this kind of hero workout often leaves you flat for the race.
2:04-high, not 2:05-high. And if he has lots of time to recover --which he does-- doesn't that completely defeat your point?
Running in Park City@7k ft doesn't accumulate you for the heat and humidity. Gee I wonder why we see in every YouTube, Kenyans wearing tights and wind breakers in 80 degree heat.
That's right. I could live at altitude but I figure it's cheaper to do all my summer training at noon. while wearing a trash bag son. to be like the kenyans you feel me.
2:04:58 is USA record.
2:00:35 is WR= Kenyan
do the math and USA is a mile behind.
Seem like running in 80 degree heat in tights and windbreaker might be working for the past 30 years for Kenyans and Ethiopians.
that's not a tempo for someone of his ability. more like a time trial.
Hmmm...
And per your "high school xc coach" expertise which clearly is superior to Conner and his coach, Ed Eyestone (2 x Olympian), please clarify "his ability" and how that differentiates a tempo run and time trial?
I'm pretty sure Connor and Clayton will be well prepared for Paris. How they run remains to be seen, but they will be as ready as possible. I believe both will be in the top 10.
61 minute half marathoner runs 12 miles at 1:02 pace. regardless of 4500 feet, that is giving wide berth for the definition of a tempo. but since there is not even close to a strict definition for a tempo run, you are right. it was a tempo.
I believe he and Young train 6 days a week. Maybe psychologically he is making up for the 'lost' day. The question is, how much better would he be with the extra 20 miles per week in the bank? Or would he be?
In the midst of 120 mile weeks done in six days, 7000ft+ of elevation gain weekly, and living and training in Park City, he just ran a 12 mile tempo at 4:46avg at 4500 feet. Expect great things in Paris!
That's a solid workout, but nothing I wouldn't expect an altitude-trained 60-minute half guy to be able to do. It's basically 12 miles at goal marathon pace. 4500 feet takes a bit out of you, but it feels closer to sea level than it does to 7000.
12 mile tempo is not 26 miles. Connor is a great runner, but how many threads popped up about Zach panning running an 18 mile tt before the trials at 4:50ish pace while running 120 mile weeks? A lot happens from miles 22-26. I hope our guys do amazing, but at some point Americans need to stop bragging about workouts(especially workouts that are not even half the distance of the race) and switch to not leaving all their races in the workouts.
12 mile tempo is not 26 miles. Connor is a great runner, but how many threads popped up about Zach panning running an 18 mile tt before the trials at 4:50ish pace while running 120 mile weeks? A lot happens from miles 22-26. I hope our guys do amazing, but at some point Americans need to stop bragging about workouts(especially workouts that are not even half the distance of the race) and switch to not leaving all their races in the workouts.
I don't think panning is a fair example. He put out a far better effort than the final time reflected. He tried getting the Olympic standard at the trials in fairly hot conditions for the marathon and blew up.
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