I think you need sub 44 400m speed to do it. Steven Gardiner might have as chance if he moved up.
Sebastian Coe ran 1:41.73 with a 400m PB of 46.87. This would suggest that someone with 45.8ish 400m speed could theoretically break 1:40 if they had similar speed endurance to Coe.
Not sure about this one. I don't think 1 extra second of 400m speed is enough to take a 1.41.7/3.29.7. I don't believe that even a 45.8/3.29.0 runner is a candidate for under 1.40.0 to be honest. Not even close.
I think you need sub 44 400m speed to do it. Steven Gardiner might have as chance if he moved up.
Sebastian Coe ran 1:41.73 with a 400m PB of 46.87. This would suggest that someone with 45.8ish 400m speed could theoretically break 1:40 if they had similar speed endurance to Coe.
True that, although Coe was one of a kind athlete. Majority of the historical 800 phenoms were more of the 400/800 type, barely running the 1500, hence why I thought it'll likely be an elite 400 runner first.
Sebastian Coe ran 1:41.73 with a 400m PB of 46.87. This would suggest that someone with 45.8ish 400m speed could theoretically break 1:40 if they had similar speed endurance to Coe.
Not sure about this one. I don't think 1 extra second of 400m speed is enough to take a 1.41.7/3.29.7. I don't believe that even a 45.8/3.29.0 runner is a candidate for under 1.40.0 to be honest. Not even close.
Wayde van Niekirk pre-injury could have done it. The strength he showed in that Rio 400 was phenomenal. Not hard to fathom with a bit of training he could have run 49 then 50 in an 800.
No he couldn’t. A guy that sprinted 9.94 would suck at 800m.
6 years ago it seemed Emmanuel Korir might have a shot at going under 1:41, There's Donovan Brazier too but sadly neither of them are anywhere close to what they were. We have 8 1:43 guys so far this year and I see there being a lot of them going 1:42 this year but even 1:41 seems out of range for them.
No one current has any chance at it. There is a lot of misunderstanding about the 800 in the United States because of the 800 being included as a distance event at the HS level. It is a long sprint and speed is by far the most important part of the 800 at any level.
The first person to break 1:40 will be the first person to go 43.9 in the 400 and 3:29 in the 1500.
On a related note, I think part of the problem with 800m running is that most of the talented speed guys tend to be exceptional all round athletes, and therefore end up gaining notable amounts of weight / muscle mass to play other sports which comes with far more upside for them (both socially (through aesthetics and being dominant in skill sports) and athletically). And it begins EARLY - 14/15, if that.
As an example. I was the second best 800m runner in my county (in the UK) at 13/14, and I trained for it as my primary sport, going to one of the best athletic clubs in the country (which has seen multiple Olympic champions pass through).
One PE lesson at school we were put into groups to run the 800m. In the first group, the best all round athlete in my school year ran and easily beat everyone else. They recorded the times, then had the second group (which I was in) run. This lad told the PE teacher he wanted to run again, then proceeded to beat me easily. 2 minutes later he ran again, and won the third race.
He did this off incidental 'mileage' from sports training.
But already he was above optimal weight for 800m (just down to sheer muscle mass), and getting a lot of positive reinforcement for his looks and strength. Try sitting a kid like that down and saying "hey, you're talented at running. If you lose some muscle and quit all your fun team sports, then you could be a quality 800m runner'.
It's just not happening.
Yeah, what you learned in PE has something to do with one of the toughest records in the books.
1:42.33 45 years ago. For sure it easily could be achieved. This doesn't mean it soon will be achieved. The 800m record currently is the "weakest" from 800 to 10000.
What does that tell you when the world low time from from 2023 is slower than the world record from 45 years ago? This even is not going in the right direction.
I have had this exact thought. I was very talented in high school as an 800 runner. I think a reason why I was successful was that I was uncoordinated and not very good at other sports until I was older than most of my athletic peers. My obvious 800 meter talent showed up right when I was starting to run track and stopping other sports. As an adult I realized I had gained a lot of athleticism but spent all of my time training for 800/1500 (which actually hurt my athleticism). Most of my more athletic peers were already committed soccer/football/baseball players who started lifting weights and doing other strength training and developing too much muscle mass in their upper body. Even those that tried track in their offseason were too big to run the 800 effectively. I think a lot of the highest potential 800 runners are elites in other sports IF they had stopped those sports around age 14/15 and focused on running the 800. I'm sure it's possible to convert back to an ideal 800 meter size but don't think it's something most teenage athletes would have the patience or foresight to want to do.
I have had this exact thought. I was very talented in high school as an 800 runner. I think a reason why I was successful was that I was uncoordinated and not very good at other sports until I was older than most of my athletic peers. My obvious 800 meter talent showed up right when I was starting to run track and stopping other sports. As an adult I realized I had gained a lot of athleticism but spent all of my time training for 800/1500 (which actually hurt my athleticism). Most of my more athletic peers were already committed soccer/football/baseball players who started lifting weights and doing other strength training and developing too much muscle mass in their upper body. Even those that tried track in their offseason were too big to run the 800 effectively. I think a lot of the highest potential 800 runners are elites in other sports IF they had stopped those sports around age 14/15 and focused on running the 800. I'm sure it's possible to convert back to an ideal 800 meter size but don't think it's something most teenage athletes would have the patience or foresight to want to do.
Your personal experiences have nothing to do with the thread topic. Stay focused, man.
1:42.33 45 years ago. For sure it easily could be achieved. This doesn't mean it soon will be achieved. The 800m record currently is the "weakest" from 800 to 10000.
I would argue it is the strongest record because it is essentially unbreakable. Just like Bolt's 100m record, there just isn't that much "room to improve."
If someone does break it, it will be by a 10th of a second, not a few seconds. That means it is a strong record, right?
This post was edited 9 minutes after it was posted.
No time soon; athletes aren't even running 1:42 on a regular basis. The 600m WR is 1:13; someone would have hit the 600 at WR pace and keep going for another 200m Another reason is you would need to go out in 46x, which means you will need to be a solid 44x quarter miler and most solid 44x athletes are not looking for ways to endure more pain. .
No time soon; athletes aren't even running 1:42 on a regular basis. The 600m WR is 1:13; someone would have hit the 600 at WR pace and keep going for another 200m Another reason is you would need to go out in 46x, which means you will need to be a solid 44x quarter miler and most solid 44x athletes are not looking for ways to endure more pain. .
600m WR is 1.12.81 so fractionally under but get your point. When you look at all WR's set over 800m since Coe ran 41.73, the final 200m is consistently in the 26.4-26.6 range. So even if you want to think someone could close even faster than that off an even faster split than we have seen historically through 600m (it's usually in the 74.3-74.5 range) you might be looking at a 26.2 close which would require 1.13.7 through 600m.
Now when you match that up against the WR it get's really tough. Rudisha in 2012 no doubt could have pushed that 600m record into the low 1.12's but even then almost all 800m runners need to or have a 2 second differential between their 600m PR's and what they can manage en-route in a race still having 200m to run without completely capitulating. So we would be looking at a mid 1.11 600m runner with even better strength than Rudisha had.
That's to me is stretching it - but then again I never thought I'd see someone get even close to 2 hours flat in a marathon. Either way I think the concept of "soon" is just not happening.
The 8 is just long enough that most people don't want to try to sprint the entire thing. Even those with the ability seem to psychologically settle in to a certain pace because it's just too long. Don't hold your breath on sub-1:40 coming anytime soon.
No time soon; athletes aren't even running 1:42 on a regular basis. The 600m WR is 1:13; someone would have hit the 600 at WR pace and keep going for another 200m Another reason is you would need to go out in 46x, which means you will need to be a solid 44x quarter miler and most solid 44x athletes are not looking for ways to endure more pain. .
600m WR is 1.12.81 so fractionally under but get your point. When you look at all WR's set over 800m since Coe ran 41.73, the final 200m is consistently in the 26.4-26.6 range. So even if you want to think someone could close even faster than that off an even faster split than we have seen historically through 600m (it's usually in the 74.3-74.5 range) you might be looking at a 26.2 close which would require 1.13.7 through 600m.
Now when you match that up against the WR it get's really tough. Rudisha in 2012 no doubt could have pushed that 600m record into the low 1.12's but even then almost all 800m runners need to or have a 2 second differential between their 600m PR's and what they can manage en-route in a race still having 200m to run without completely capitulating. So we would be looking at a mid 1.11 600m runner with even better strength than Rudisha had.
That's to me is stretching it - but then again I never thought I'd see someone get even close to 2 hours flat in a marathon. Either way I think the concept of "soon" is just not happening.
Your second paragraph is jibbirish. The only relevant metric, is the distance that everyone one runs, which is the 400m. There’s no weird correlation between the 800m and marathon.
The 8 is just long enough that most people don't want to try to sprint the entire thing. Even those with the ability seem to psychologically settle in to a certain pace because it's just too long. Don't hold your breath on sub-1:40 coming anytime soon.
There’s nothing mental about it. Either you have physical ability to run the 800, or don’t. The 400m hurts like hell.
Watch the Rudusha WR video as many times as takes until you finally understand that he was hybrid freak of nature.
Your second paragraph is jibbirish. The only relevant metric, is the distance that everyone one runs, which is the 400m. There’s no weird correlation between the 800m and marathon.
The only metric that is key to the 800m is the 400? Hahah "know the sport"? You wouldn't know your arm from your a$$hole buddy. Go away.