Is it worth doing doubles on 35-40 miles a week?

Malmo, I've seen you say this repeatedly over the years, and I trust your knowledge.

But if one were to train for longer, say runs/hikes in the mountains, would it be beneficial to add a long run just for that? I'm assuming your thoughts about long runs are regarding track runners?

It is my opinion that doubles are most useful when attempting to run more milage then you would otherwise be ready for. If you want to calculate the load just divide the shorter run by 2. There is also use for them when you hit around 60-70 mile weeks and it is difficult to find a good 2 hour block to run/get to bored.

This is from my logs as a 15 year old sophomore, my first year of cross country. Started off doing one or two miles in the morning. It made a huge difference.

mileage (morning runs) .... xx/xx = meet placings

9/12 -- 8 miles
9/19 – 26 miles (2)
9/26 – 28 miles (1.5, 2, 2)
10/3 – 41 miles (1.5, 2, 1, 2) …. 10/21….12/14
10/10 – 28 miles (2, 2) …. 10/21….12/77 (AU Invite)
10/17 – 55 miles (4, 4, 2.5, 4.5, 2) ….9/14
10/24 -- 53 miles (4.5, 3, 4.5, 3, 4.5, 2)….5/21….3/14
10/31 – 45 miles (4, 5, 5, 2.5) ….2/56 (County Meet)
11/7 – 37 miles (5,4) ….42/109 (State Meet)

I don't know anything about hiking. I assume there's nothing competitive about it and it's supposed to be fun and relaxing.

If you're thinking about adding doubles toward the end of the summer, during the rest of the summer, you might consider adding a second "workout" of something else you enjoy - it could be something like mountain biking or another sport. At your level, just about anything active can add some fitness and make you stronger, more resilient to what's coming. But be sure to keep it fun.

The first rule of training is to not add more stimulus then needed to improve.

My advice is todo doubles and treshold training (fartlek , progression runs).

I think doing workouts (like hard track session) and adding extra runs to a normal shedule is unnecessary hard.

Absolutely, that was how I made my jump many years ago. The doubles don't need to be big... a 3 & 5 or a 4 & 4. My minimum run is 5K. But any combo that gets to 8M is worth it. When those get comfortable, you can then increase your effort on one of them. Your single run days then feel almost like a day off. Good luck!

If an athlete is an elite 800m specialist, yes, no question, maybe a five mile run in the morning and track workout in late afternoon.

If a person is a hobby jogger who races 5K to Marathon, logging (30 to 40) miles a week, get the runs in as you can.

why would the random 24 hr day matter? Your body knows how much stress you have in a week. I think of doubles as someone who is dong enough work/miles that they benefit from splitting it up?

I am not aware of research showing splitting low mileage up into 2 pieces is more effective. So 2.5 miles in AM and PM?

Yes definitely.

He's averaging like 5-6m per day though? I think if someone on low mileage asks about doubles, they are really asking about increasing mileage and work. And that's fine. But splitting 35 into two? Its low enough that I don't know that you benefit from separating 2-3 mile warm up before your intervals or whatever?

I've seen this thread countless times on here.

If you are running 4 times a week, try running 8 times a week for 6 weeks and report back to this thread.

It never worked for me but until lots of people try it and report back, we will never really know.

You're the guy who refuses to learn how to calculate the slope of the steeplechase pit. This is clearly above your pay grade as well. Doubles have been proven the ideal way of training by millions of competitive runners.

Reporting back from holiday doubles:

- 2 1/2 weeks running 6 x doubles a week

- Bodyfat dropped by 2%

- Parkrun/5k improved by one minute (30sec pb)

- Everybody I personally know that runs low 30 min 10km is training twice a day.

Some of them are triathlon guys, so it is 2 sessions a day, but might be run/bike/swim, but all of them train 6-7 days with doubles.

If you are paid to run / try to get a stipendium / sponsorship then your best change is leaving no stone unturned and double....

Malmo nails it.

People who are saying 'You don't need to double when you can run 42 mpw in 6-mile singles' ... they just don't get it.

The point is that you can benefit from a twice-daily stimulus, even at low mileage. This seems especially important for runners who are far from maximizing training time.

Virtually everyone here is in the huge chasm between the professionals and the novices, and most of us would benefit doing from a long run in training. The benefits are well known and have been studied for decades.

themotherrunners.com

The Scientific Benefits of Long Runs

Whitney Heins

Even if you're training for a 5k, every runner should be doing a long run. Long runs have plenty of benefits that make you a faster, stronger runner.

Open link

Long runs:

Build the number of mitochondria in your cells. These are the “energy factories” that power movement and cell respiration.

Increase max VO2 and blood volume, maximum stroke volume (the amount of blood ejected from the heart with each beat), and build new capillaries and red blood cells. This helps get oxygen (to use for energy) to your muscles.

Build mental toughness. When you toe the start line, you know you can go the distance because you already have—and in some cases—and then some.

Make your running more efficient. Muscles learn through practice, so your stride will improve through consistent long runs.

Teach your body how to fuel itself. Your body will learn to tap into fat before glycogen, delaying glycogen depletion during a long race. This helps delay hitting that proverbial wall.

Make your muscles, bones, and tendons stronger. Running for prolonged periods increases the strength of the leg muscles and connective tissues.

Increase your body’s ability to use fat as fuel. Your body uses both carbs (glycogen) and fat to fuel your runs. Long runs increase your body’s ability to optimally and efficiently use these fuel sources to power you.

Make you faster! By improving your endurance, you’ll be able to hold a certain pace for a longer period of time. And, then as your slow-twitch muscles get tired, your fast-twitch muscle fibers pitch in.

The problem is non-pro runners often do a long run to the determinate of the other days.

That doesn't mean that non-pros wouldn't benefit from a long run. It just means that non-pro runner who do that need to learn to recover properly.

Embarrassing. Telling malmo about mitochondrial growth and linking to some hobby jogger website LOL. Easy runs already do all the things mentioned in that article. Novices need to run. Period. As often as they can. That is the opposite of what some people do - they put 40% of their mpw into the long run, get tired, then take days off or something. Not what you want to do.