Interesting to note how different the top contenders strengths are
Keely rarely runs the 1500m. Jemma often focuses on it and I think it’s her better distance.
I wonder if Keely is just a pure 800m runner. She does have a good kick and paces it to perfection. I don’t think she needs to go there with the 1500m. I think she probably should do a bit more 400m work to be competitive against Moraa and Mu. That finishing 100m is where it will be won and lost. The only way they will beat Moraa is by not letting her do her fartlek slowing everyone down then kicking for the finish with 100 to go.
Moraa has never run the 800m at a consistent (compared to the others) pace. Her PB is slower. Yet you’d kind of put money on her wouldn’t you? The others need to focus on her tactics and how to get in front of her and stay there.
I agree with Moraa. As an male who ran similar times to these ladies 40+ years ago, Moraa would be my idea of a nightmare to run against..
There nothing that confirm that Kratochvilova record was du to doping. Maybe her body and musculature helped her. If we doubt her, we can doubt Emile Zatopek too.
[quote} In 2017, she criticized a proposal by European Athletics to remove suspicion about drug-taking by voiding all world records set before 2005.
People in this forum come and throw right and left doping accusations without sources. Sebastian Coe 1:41:75 in 1982 and 40 years later none from GB came close.
Well it's not happening so I guess we don't even need to go there. Jarmila K was the WR holder in the 400m at 47.99 - from blocks. Never really touched the 1500m so we don't know but it's kind of irrelevant because she did run 1.53.28 - the WR.
Mu's profile right now is 49.57, 1.54.97 and 4.03.44. Is the 400m really getting much better - especially now with an obvious shift to the 800/1500 side? (she didn't even clock an official 400 in 2023 and in 2022 ran 50.4). Let's give her the massive benefit of the doubt and say she can get to 49.0. But that is not enough to run in the low 1.53's so she is going to have to at the same time pull her 1500m time down into the 3.59/4.00 territory at a bare minimum.
Now we see the conundrum - improve your 400m speed (and 0.6 is a considerable chunk) and your 1500m endurance (enough to take 3+ seconds off a time which I think was a stunning performance for her to begin with) concurrently. Just don't see it happening. If Mu got down into the low 1.54's it would be awesome and let's be honest that is not a slight on her because it would 100% be the WR as our only 2 times under 1.54 are absolutely PED aided and Semenya and Jelimo were by todays precedent not going to be eligible to compete in the womens category (Jelimo I think as well on some special vitamins).
Back to Keeley H - good time and good start to the season but I really believe that if she wants to maximize her talent, that 1500m needs to dramatically improve. Clearly she sees herself as a pure 400/800m runner but we now know how important the over-distances are for any MD event - a 56.0 first lap for her now is no problem as a 51.5 runner - but can she follow that up with a 58.5 is her challenge and that strength lies in the 1500m and not in the 400.
I’ve always thought Jelimo was DSD. Glad to get more confirmation
There is zero evidence that Jelimo was DSD unless you count running fast. It’s just gets repeated and since a lot of people on this board love DSD and trans woman it gets repeated time after time.
You guys must realise Mu is a 400/800 type while Keely is a 800/1500 type. Suprised Rojo cant understand how this impacts 400m speed. It ain’t that hard to understand.
Ehh, I'd caution that conclusion. Keely hasn't really tried out the 1500m. She could very well just be a 800m runner with moderate range who's equally as good at the 400m and 1500m. Although 51 is 2 seconds slower than Mu, it's certainly a solid time for a 800m runner. Mu at 49 mid is more of an outlier so not the best comparison.
I would expect an 800m/1500m runner with say PR's of 1:55/3:57 to have a 400m closer to 53 low. If they got down to a 50, that's just fantastic range.
Worth noting Keely was a gun cross country runner as a teenager so this does suggest decent 1500m ability at least. would love to see her run a few 1500’s
Its a marginal improvement. She ran her pr last year with two rounds in her legs. It at least shows hers speed is at a good spot. I have little doubt in her going 1:55 again this year. But saying sub 1:55 is almost certain is a stretch. I want to see Keely in a 1500 though. I want to see if she could be faster than Muir.
You may want to see Keely H race 1500m, I guess in order to see her knock over 20 seconds off her 1500m p.b. If you want to see Keely H race 1500m because you mistakenly believe a fast 1500m means a fast 800m, it does not work like that. Four-hundred meter p.b. is more strongly correlated to 800m success compared to 1500m p.b. If we consider sub-1:56.25 elite for 800m women, their capability/personal best, 400m, in 47.99 to 54.xx range. Some elite 800m women have been elite 1500m runners, and some elite 800m runners never race or raced 1500m past age 17 or so.
Its a marginal improvement. She ran her pr last year with two rounds in her legs. It at least shows hers speed is at a good spot. I have little doubt in her going 1:55 again this year. But saying sub 1:55 is almost certain is a stretch. I want to see Keely in a 1500 though. I want to see if she could be faster than Muir.
You may want to see Keely H race 1500m, I guess in order to see her knock over 20 seconds off her 1500m p.b. If you want to see Keely H race 1500m because you mistakenly believe a fast 1500m means a fast 800m, it does not work like that. Four-hundred meter p.b. is more strongly correlated to 800m success compared to 1500m p.b. If we consider sub-1:56.25 elite for 800m women, their capability/personal best, 400m, in 47.99 to 54.xx range. Some elite 800m women have been elite 1500m runners, and some elite 800m runners never race or raced 1500m past age 17 or so.
Yes I think what we often see is 1500m runners (such as Reekie and Muir) knocking out a decent 800m. I don’t think Keely is a 1500/800 runner. So she doesn’t get much benefit from doing the 1500m (and I’d wager she wouldn’t be that competitive at it).
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
You guys are completely overlooking Duguma in this debate, she’s on the steepest upward curve of any of them. Good on KH for realising her 400 needs to improve, a PB in an opener on a poor track ain’t bad
I’ve always thought Jelimo was DSD. Glad to get more confirmation
There is zero evidence that Jelimo was DSD unless you count running fast. It’s just gets repeated and since a lot of people on this board love DSD and trans woman it gets repeated time after time.
How exactly were suspicions raised with Semenya then? I will tell you how - right or wrong it was initially on an aesthetic/optics basis. There was zero evidence prior to that.
I can tell you for a fact the same murmurs were happening on the circuit with Mutola in the late 90's early 2000's based on the optics but it ended up being a "shrugging shoulders" situation as in "well what can anyone do". Exactly the same situation with Jelimo. Once again zero "evidence" except what could be seen and what was supported on the track in the results.
And I don't need to post images here to prove a point - you have a computer and a web browser.
There is zero evidence that Jelimo was DSD unless you count running fast. It’s just gets repeated and since a lot of people on this board love DSD and trans woman it gets repeated time after time.
How exactly were suspicions raised with Semenya then? I will tell you how - right or wrong it was initially on an aesthetic/optics basis. There was zero evidence prior to that.
I can tell you for a fact the same murmurs were happening on the circuit with Mutola in the late 90's early 2000's based on the optics but it ended up being a "shrugging shoulders" situation as in "well what can anyone do". Exactly the same situation with Jelimo. Once again zero "evidence" except what could be seen and what was supported on the track in the results.
And I don't need to post images here to prove a point - you have a computer and a web browser.
Moraa has to be odds on to fail a drugs test after the Olympics.
AFTER is the key word here. Rarely are the cheaters shut down before the big, international competitions, even though WADA already has their samples, and ESPECIALLY if their national anti-doping federation has tested the samples. It's a bad look when a top-rated athlete is busted and kept out of a world championship, so we'll just keep quiet and announce the bust a few months after the competition.
Well, all Kelly’s training, since she was a teenager, has been designed for her to peak in Paris. She will be expecting to run 1min 54.5 the Olympics. Athing might be able to match that but Mary probably not.
Neither Jelimo nor Mutola are DSD. Sometimes I wonder if people actually care about fairness of womens' sports and respecting women when they disproportionately accuse (mainly African) women of being DSD when, not to be disrespectful, but you can clearly see the difference if you actually were checking properly rather than making a surface level assumption.
"Looking masculine" is not the same as being DSD. Aleia Hobbs also seems to get this type of abuse everywhere she goes when it's fairly obvious both by an eye test and the fact she's been tested for years, that she is not DSD.
Neither Jelimo nor Mutola are DSD. Sometimes I wonder if people actually care about fairness of womens' sports and respecting women when they disproportionately accuse (mainly African) women of being DSD when, not to be disrespectful, but you can clearly see the difference if you actually were checking properly rather than making a surface level assumption.
That guy who posted the allegations is pretty an "expert of calculus" from which he detect dopers (using formulas known only to his mind) while in strong bias to American.
Look like a automate Japanese American from what I'm guessing.
and this is a runner that didn't even get a gold medal in her main event.
To add to the poll of Femke Bole and her friends.
Bol and Hodgkinson are two of my favorite track athletes but I believe that they are going to perpetually be resigned to the role of being the bridesmaid as long at Syd & Mu are in the game.
When did Mu last race? Did I miss the news about her retirement?
Well, all Kelly’s training, since she was a teenager, has been designed for her to peak in Paris. She will be expecting to run 1min 54.5 the Olympics. Athing might be able to match that but Mary probably not.
I wonder if her injury sidetracked that a little. Though she does seem back to good form and has completed a solid training block.
Duguma was very lucky in Glasgow because Reekie used the wrong tactics. Jemma needs a really fast pace. Duguma did look impressive, but will she look good at 1min 55sec - or faster- pace?
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