smaller marathons sub elites win all the time... we aren't talking about a world major here....
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David C Katz wrote:
I agree that this runner was in violation of USATF & WA Rules of competition. BUT there is a problem here. I can't find anywhere on the event website that the race is run under those rules ....not even a link! Many of the posters have stated that an athlete of that caliber should have known the rules but I'm not sure that many know all the rules. A race covers itself by posting them online. This is an issue I learned the hard way. Over 30 years ago I DQ'd an athlete for a violation of USATF rule. The County Executive (County owned the race), challenged my decision based on the fact that the rules weren't published anywhere. I had to reinstate the runner. From that point on, I had the rules published. And apparently the bike escorts didn't know the rules either. All one of them needed to do is cycle next to the father and warn him and it would have been a non-issue.
Please tell me that you are not the same guy that ran the tech meeting at the OT?
That David Katz handled himself like a giant know it all. I was shocked that he didn’t get jumped by some angry female athletes walking out of the meeting.
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thatrunnerguy69 wrote:
It's the OC Marathon.. no prize money unless you break the course record. He clearly wasn't even close, why be petty and tell. I get it rules are rules but how many times have sub elite runners taken a bottle from a family member on the course. I am willing to say more often then not.
Please cite the instances where winning sub elites had their family members bike the course and constantly hands them liquids during the race. According to your logic, prior cheating going unpunished justifies current cheating.
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Please tell me wrote:
David C Katz wrote:
I agree that this runner was in violation of USATF & WA Rules of competition. BUT there is a problem here. I can't find anywhere on the event website that the race is run under those rules ....not even a link! Many of the posters have stated that an athlete of that caliber should have known the rules but I'm not sure that many know all the rules. A race covers itself by posting them online. This is an issue I learned the hard way. Over 30 years ago I DQ'd an athlete for a violation of USATF rule. The County Executive (County owned the race), challenged my decision based on the fact that the rules weren't published anywhere. I had to reinstate the runner. From that point on, I had the rules published. And apparently the bike escorts didn't know the rules either. All one of them needed to do is cycle next to the father and warn him and it would have been a non-issue.
Please tell me that you are not the same guy that ran the tech meeting at the OT?
That David Katz handled himself like a giant know it all. I was shocked that he didn’t get jumped by some angry female athletes walking out of the meeting.
Yes, that was me.
"know it all". Not really, but I know where to find the answers.
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DouchebagRD wrote:
It’s the same douche bag RD from 10yrs ago Gary Kutschar pulling the same power trip. How is this twat still even around? The rules dictate a person needs to be given a warning first then a DQ. The aid stations are typically late to set up at this race. They need to get their crap together.
Not the rule in a road event. This was discussed in a meeting of officials at the USATF annual meeting. Accepting assistance is grounds for a DQ.
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David C Katz wrote:
Please tell me wrote:
Please tell me that you are not the same guy that ran the tech meeting at the OT?
That David Katz handled himself like a giant know it all. I was shocked that he didn’t get jumped by some angry female athletes walking out of the meeting.
Yes, that was me.
"know it all". Not really, but I know where to find the answers.
AM I ALLOWED TO BRING MY BABY STROLLER, JOGGER, OR HAVE MY FRIEND IN-LINE SKATE WITH ME?
STROLLERS ARE NOT ALLOWED FOR THE SUNDAY MARATHON OR HALF MARATHONS UNLESS SPECIAL ARRANGEMENTS ARE REQUESTED AND GRANTED BY THE OC MARATHON (). THESE REQUESTS MAY INCLUDE ABLE-BODIED ATHLETES/PARENTS PAIRING WITH ATHLETES WITH DISABILITIES OR IN THE RARE INSTANCE A REQUEST TO BREAK A RECORD, ETC. WE DO ALLOW STROLLERS IN OUR SATURDAY 5K ALTHOUGH WE PREFER THAT THEY START NEAR THE REAR.IN-LINE SKATERS, BICYCLISTS, AS WELL AS PETS WILL BE PROHIBITED ON THE COURSE IN ORDER TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF ALL RUNNERS.
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LOL26.2 wrote:
thatrunnerguy69 wrote:
It's the OC Marathon.. no prize money unless you break the course record. He clearly wasn't even close, why be petty and tell. I get it rules are rules but how many times have sub elite runners taken a bottle from a family member on the course. I am willing to say more often then not.
Please cite the instances where winning sub elites had their family members bike the course and constantly hands them liquids during the race. According to your logic, prior cheating going unpunished justifies current cheating.
Bro calm down people get handed water all the time
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LOL26.2 wrote:
David C Katz wrote:
Yes, that was me.
"know it all". Not really, but I know where to find the answers.
AM I ALLOWED TO BRING MY BABY STROLLER, JOGGER, OR HAVE MY FRIEND IN-LINE SKATE WITH ME?
STROLLERS ARE NOT ALLOWED FOR THE SUNDAY MARATHON OR HALF MARATHONS UNLESS SPECIAL ARRANGEMENTS ARE REQUESTED AND GRANTED BY THE OC MARATHON (). THESE REQUESTS MAY INCLUDE ABLE-BODIED ATHLETES/PARENTS PAIRING WITH ATHLETES WITH DISABILITIES OR IN THE RARE INSTANCE A REQUEST TO BREAK A RECORD, ETC. WE DO ALLOW STROLLERS IN OUR SATURDAY 5K ALTHOUGH WE PREFER THAT THEY START NEAR THE REAR.IN-LINE SKATERS, BICYCLISTS, AS WELL AS PETS WILL BE PROHIBITED ON THE COURSE IN ORDER TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF ALL RUNNERS.
Thank you for pointing this out. It would also have been helpful to list the rules of competition as many other large races do. Thanks again.
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David C Katz wrote:
I agree that this runner was in violation of USATF & WA Rules of competition. BUT there is a problem here. I can't find anywhere on the event website that the race is run under those rules ....not even a link! Many of the posters have stated that an athlete of that caliber should have known the rules but I'm not sure that many know all the rules. A race covers itself by posting them online. This is an issue I learned the hard way. Over 30 years ago I DQ'd an athlete for a violation of USATF rule. The County Executive (County owned the race), challenged my decision based on the fact that the rules weren't published anywhere. I had to reinstate the runner. From that point on, I had the rules published. And apparently the bike escorts didn't know the rules either. All one of them needed to do is cycle next to the father and warn him and it would have been a non-issue.
David, are you saying the race isn’t sanctioned? If it is, as a referee we were always told that it is implied that sanctioned races are run under the rules of USATF and WA. Of course, to cover themselves, there should be either a tech meeting or tech sheet for elite athletes.
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A DQ isn't so bad.
I like their Blizzards. Reeses Peanut Butter is always good.
Their food is rather meh though.
This post was edited 35 seconds after it was posted.232 -
The race did the correct thing.
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Ray wrote:
David C Katz wrote:
I agree that this runner was in violation of USATF & WA Rules of competition. BUT there is a problem here. I can't find anywhere on the event website that the race is run under those rules ....not even a link! Many of the posters have stated that an athlete of that caliber should have known the rules but I'm not sure that many know all the rules. A race covers itself by posting them online. This is an issue I learned the hard way. Over 30 years ago I DQ'd an athlete for a violation of USATF rule. The County Executive (County owned the race), challenged my decision based on the fact that the rules weren't published anywhere. I had to reinstate the runner. From that point on, I had the rules published. And apparently the bike escorts didn't know the rules either. All one of them needed to do is cycle next to the father and warn him and it would have been a non-issue.
David, are you saying the race isn’t sanctioned? If it is, as a referee we were always told that it is implied that sanctioned races are run under the rules of USATF and WA. Of course, to cover themselves, there should be either a tech meeting or tech sheet for elite athletes.
Not every race is USATF Sanctioned. Many races only get a USATF Sanction for the race insurance. Some races organized by municipal recreation departments are self insured and don't bother with the extra expense of a Sanction. Regardless of a Sanction, it is helpful to post the rules.
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Insurance is available through other bodies like RRCA, but I thought both a certified course and usatf event sanction are required to be considered a Boston Qualifier.
Also this just came up at Philadelphia, no? Warnings are good form, but its at the discretion of the race director/officials. Not required.
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I highly suggest that most races that anticipate any top athletes (relative term) get their events Sanctioned by USATF and get on the WA calendar + have the course certified by a World Athletics level A or B measurer - we have many in the USA and adding all the time.
This is essential for athletes to get WA ranking points. Regardless, a USATF Sanction and Certification is required for records - age group records could pop up at any race.
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never mind the water, this guy had someone biking next to him.
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David C Katz wrote:
Ray wrote:
David, are you saying the race isn’t sanctioned? If it is, as a referee we were always told that it is implied that sanctioned races are run under the rules of USATF and WA. Of course, to cover themselves, there should be either a tech meeting or tech sheet for elite athletes.
Not every race is USATF Sanctioned. Many races only get a USATF Sanction for the race insurance. Some races organized by municipal recreation departments are self insured and don't bother with the extra expense of a Sanction. Regardless of a Sanction, it is helpful to post the rules.
Is the same reason that Gene Dykes over-70 marathon record is not recognized?
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OC spectator wrote:
I don't think he meant harm, but he's young-ish and learned a good lesson for the next go. Second place was only 17 seconds behind. Watch the original story with clips from what I assume to be the race's lead bike, which shows the DQed guy passing by volunteers who are perfectly organized and holding out water cups but grabbing bottles, gels from his dad who rides alongside him on a bike. (On multiple points of the course.) This wasn't some spontaneous grabbing of water because the tables weren't ready. Wish the guy the best on the next one, and hope he practices carrying fuel if he needs it.So should every runner have their own personal bike escort on the course? Why not?
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David C Katz wrote:
I agree that this runner was in violation of USATF & WA Rules of competition. BUT there is a problem here. I can't find anywhere on the event website that the race is run under those rules ....not even a link! Many of the posters have stated that an athlete of that caliber should have known the rules but I'm not sure that many know all the rules. A race covers itself by posting them online. This is an issue I learned the hard way. Over 30 years ago I DQ'd an athlete for a violation of USATF rule. The County Executive (County owned the race), challenged my decision based on the fact that the rules weren't published anywhere. I had to reinstate the runner. From that point on, I had the rules published. And apparently the bike escorts didn't know the rules either. All one of them needed to do is cycle next to the father and warn him and it would have been a non-issue.
Right here (and then it links to the USATF rule book):USATF RULES OF COMPETITION
the marathon, half marathon, and 5K races will be conducted according to USATF Rules of Competition.250 -
Great- Thank you.
Any rules for the age groups?
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Er... wrote:
Disqualified winner is also alleging that it was the second place finisher, now “winner,” who reported him for receiving aid outside the official stations. Classy.
Good for the 2nd place finisher if that is the case. Don't cheat.
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