I think 4 seconds for the shoes is a bit rich. I'd say 334-5 for shoes but back in the day of Ryun there wouldn't have been a rabbit, right? So i guess 336-7 is about right.
So you think Tokyo 2020 was a poor race tactically for Hocker? He ran a PB, I don't think he could have run any faster that day. Plus in these races that get blown open right away by Jakob or someone else there are no tactics, you are just trying to hang on and then kicking with whatever you have left.
Absolutely. Look how far back he allowed himself to be. When the break happened, he was way off the front. You’ve got to give yourself a chance, and not allow head starts. Hanging back then finishing crazy fast like that in these new championship style races is not the way to medal. Unfortunately, I don’t see him changing that practice.
I don't think Hocker could have medalled that day, he simply didn't have the fitness. He'd never come close to running a 1500 at the pace that race broke open at, you can't call that bad tactics.
Absolutely. Look how far back he allowed himself to be. When the break happened, he was way off the front. You’ve got to give yourself a chance, and not allow head starts. Hanging back then finishing crazy fast like that in these new championship style races is not the way to medal. Unfortunately, I don’t see him changing that practice.
I don't think Hocker could have medalled that day, he simply didn't have the fitness. He'd never come close to running a 1500 at the pace that race broke open at, you can't call that bad tactics.
Go back and look at the last 400m splits of the top 6. I think you’ll see that Hocker’s “fitness” is much better than you give him credit for.
There is so much chatter about how difficult it will be to make the British 1500 Olympic team this year.
It is looking more like it'll be harder to make the American team.
The two defending world champs and a host of other 3:30-3:34 guys...the British team is DEFINITELY more difficult to make right now. But it's definitely a good year for us as well.
Yawn....Cooper runs a PR in a paced race that has no bearing on tactical races that he has shown to perform poorly in. He won't make the 1500 team if he tries.
Absolutely. Look how far back he allowed himself to be. When the break happened, he was way off the front. You’ve got to give yourself a chance, and not allow head starts. Hanging back then finishing crazy fast like that in these new championship style races is not the way to medal. Unfortunately, I don’t see him changing that practice.
GB's the only country with 6 guys with the standard and it's still early. I think it'll be a little bit harder.
US has 5 now. GB should add Wightman. GB has 6 but 2 (Giles/Gourley) are not competing yet, which is worrisome. And the depth past is not nearly as good as the US guys. Guys like Green, Waskom, Sahlman, Houser and even Murphy should have higher ceilings than Elson (injured) or Keen. GB with better health is crazy good but right now it’s just Kerr, Mills and Fogg who have had ideal winters.
Teare can absolutely make the team. We always get at least one unexpected athlete making the 1500 each year. I'd expect it to be Nuguse and Hocker making it with the last spot up for grabs.
I had forgotten Spivey was that fast. In 1988, no less (a year he missed the US Olympic team). There's a guy that doesn't get enough love. Made 3 Olympic teams, right, in 2 different events?
He has easily made every global final and performed well in every one of them. Stop focusing on a few DL races last year. Centro didn’t perform well on those either and he was a tactical master.
You can’t pick and choose which races you get to analyze. Same race plan in Tokyo as in Budapest- boxed and in the back. If you’re relying on passing on the inside over and over, that’s just not going to consistently work. Hocker has wheels, and it’s a shame he doesn’t seem to put himself in contention to podium when he clearly can.
Look at the 2020 Olympic Trials. I mean, if you think that was being a tactical master, then it’s probably just best to end the discussion. He only gets away with poor tactics there because he’s running against Americans.
Re '20 Olympic Trials... I don't know, what is your issue with that? Keep in mind that we (and presumably Hocker himself) didn't know exactly how good Hocker was. It's not like he can just boss this race from the front and not worry about the energy he expends to get there.
This race is a good example of exactly what I said above: Hocker has a knack for tucking in on the rail, running the shortest distance and conserving energy, and then finding a hole to unleash a kick. I assume you think that he got "lucky" to find that gap at the end, but I'd have two points to counter that: 1) he could have gone earlier if he wanted to; on the backstretch he could easily have gone around guys without moving outside of lane 2, but he waited, presumably because he thought he'd have to time it perfectly to win, and 2) like I said above, Hocker probably thought he needed to run a very, very good race to win or even qualify. To run a great race you sometimes need to take tactical "risks" (e.g. the risk of getting boxed in), because to have no risk in that department you probably need to run wide somewhere a couple times and waste energy. Again, if you are the class of the field you can do this, but otherwise you can't.
Also Hocker doesn't waste energy on the rail often, I really don't know what you are referring to with the comment about him running up into people and having to back off. If you want to see someone waste energy trying to get in position look at Nordas at World Indoors this year; I've never seen Hocker do anything resembling that.
edit: ok I went back and actually watched the full race (not just last 500m) and Hocker does try to move up a couple times and get bumped back. Still, he's not wasting much energy here – it's not like he made big move / burned a match – especially compared to the rest of the field (half of which is in lane 2 for a lot of the race).
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
Not a single White American has ever broken 3:30, while the English (Coe, Cram, etc) have been doing that since 1985. The 1500 has always been a weak American event. Conversely, no White British runner has ever broken 13 minutes outdoors for the 5000 meters. Bob Kennedy first did that for the U.S. about 1996, followed by many others. Can't explain either.
Just so we're clear - paced time trials are okay now (no longer #badforthesport), so long as it's not Jerry and BTC doing it?
Him and Cole are racing the 5k in two weeks in the LA Grand Prix against Mo Ahmed, Joshua Cheptegei, Jacob Kiplimo, and Selmon Barega. They also are hope to get in the fast heat of the Bowerman Mile. Cooper didn’t have the standard in the Qualifying window. Now he does in the 1500, and can aim to get the standard and go sub 13 in LA and compete for place at Pre.
Unfortunately there were no other 1500s/miles this weekend that offered him a better chance of getting the standard (Olli didn’t get the standard with the indoor WC champ on pacing duties)
Teare is going to double - the schedule lines up so that can be done. It might take like 3:31 or so to make the top 3. I imagine Yared taking it out last year and matching any move over the last 400m. Yared, Cole, Teare, Hobbs, Colins, some WU kids - going to be crazy hard to make.
You can’t pick and choose which races you get to analyze. Same race plan in Tokyo as in Budapest- boxed and in the back. If you’re relying on passing on the inside over and over, that’s just not going to consistently work. Hocker has wheels, and it’s a shame he doesn’t seem to put himself in contention to podium when he clearly can.
Look at the 2020 Olympic Trials. I mean, if you think that was being a tactical master, then it’s probably just best to end the discussion. He only gets away with poor tactics there because he’s running against Americans.
Re '20 Olympic Trials... I don't know, what is your issue with that? Keep in mind that we (and presumably Hocker himself) didn't know exactly how good Hocker was. It's not like he can just boss this race from the front and not worry about the energy he expends to get there.
This race is a good example of exactly what I said above: Hocker has a knack for tucking in on the rail, running the shortest distance and conserving energy, and then finding a hole to unleash a kick. I assume you think that he got "lucky" to find that gap at the end, but I'd have two points to counter that: 1) he could have gone earlier if he wanted to; on the backstretch he could easily have gone around guys without moving outside of lane 2, but he waited, presumably because he thought he'd have to time it perfectly to win, and 2) like I said above, Hocker probably thought he needed to run a very, very good race to win or even qualify. To run a great race you sometimes need to take tactical "risks" (e.g. the risk of getting boxed in), because to have no risk in that department you probably need to run wide somewhere a couple times and waste energy. Again, if you are the class of the field you can do this, but otherwise you can't.
Also Hocker doesn't waste energy on the rail often, I really don't know what you are referring to with the comment about him running up into people and having to back off. If you want to see someone waste energy trying to get in position look at Nordas at World Indoors this year; I've never seen Hocker do anything resembling that.
edit: ok I went back and actually watched the full race (not just last 500m) and Hocker does try to move up a couple times and get bumped back. Still, he's not wasting much energy here – it's not like he made big move / burned a match – especially compared to the rest of the field (half of which is in lane 2 for a lot of the race).
final thought on this because this thread has been fully hijacked: we need to distinguish between in-race tactics and pre-race plan. When I think of "tactics" I mostly think of the former, a runner's ability to navigate a pack, run the shortest distance, etc. It seems like you are more criticizing Hocker's pre-race plan (like in the Tokyo final).
