Another Kenyan busted

Sometimes it's really hard to know what you are talking about.

I guess when you say 20-year old Eritrean, you are referring to Abadi Hadis, an Ethiopian who died at age 22 after an unspecified illness.

And when you say 17-year old Eritrean Swede busted for EPO, you really mean Robel Fsiha, an Eritrean Swede busted for testosterone at the age of 24.

And by "the day before", you really mean "within 48 hours".

And the Spanish manager is Juan Pineda.

It's not a matter of wanting to hate you. The main problem I have with your many provocative conclusions is that you can't seem to be trusted to get most of the facts right. It's not even close.

I don't recall what I said exactly, and I'm sure you don't recollect it accurately, but remind me again what is the link and conclusion you wanted to make between these two athletes, besides both having the same sports manager?

"a ton of convenient and pointless deflection away from the reality" - indeed that is standard procedure of those doping apologists.

Also agreed: Coevett does make that easy for the doping apologists with his combination of poor memory and ridiculous exaggerations. Now the thread has turned into a discussion of his many errors in this thread instead of the doped Kenyan.

Also agreed: yes, carry on.

She got popped for a pain killer bro, its not EPO like you always try to state, most kenyans actually get popped for the triamcinolone acetonide and Nalandralone. in fairness tho majority of Caucasian runners are on Strong asthma medication, Thyroid meds.

Kenyans are targeted. Hard not to see this for what it is, a conspiracy.

I don't think so.

He is just illustrating his deep complexes that his country is not ruling the world anymore. And that a specific region on the globe has outstanding conditions to originate top distance runners - a region extremely different from the one he is used to.

It's shocking really that you allegedly forgot this, and the fact you defended the manager and produced walls of text claiming we had no right to suspect doping as the cause of the athlete's sudden death.

17 year old Eritrean Swede Robert Fisk was suspended for an EPO positive, and the day before or after, 20 year old athlete, if I remember he was Ethiopian but may have been Eritrean too, dropped dead of a mystery illness in hospital. Both were managed by an infamous Spaniard with links to Jama Aden.

Perhaps I'm being unfair. Perhaps you are not lying again and pretending you have a faulty memory. I believe the mods deleted the thread. What should have been one of the most important and discussed LetsRun threads of all-time was deleted by a mod (Probably M) because you or Hoady or Spade Detector reported it for being 'discrimatory'.

You have been corrected, twice, and you still persist? Do you dislike facts?

You truly make me sick, assuming you are being genuine and not Hoady or one of the other apologists and shills. For a start, I created this thread. Nobody else bothered..We wouldn't be discussing her if I hadn't posted it.

As for exaggerations, does this refer to things like stating that no Kenyan broke 2:09 before 1990? And the likes of Hoady claim that one did in 1989, although it's not listed in the World Athletics all time list. What a whopping exaggeration or lie, eh?

Similarly, I was wrong in saying Thoughtlessleader claimed the fact that he took ibuprofen once and didn't smash his 25 minute 5K pb, was 'proof' that Oxycodene wasn't a ped. He actually claimed he took Oxycodene once and didn't smash his pbs. So what? His point is still absolutely nonsense and I was right to mock it.

Meanwhile I uncover that Aouita was allegedly serviced by a Belgian doctor arrested for supplying EPO and other peds to dozens of cyclists and runners. I discover that the coach of Beyer, Straub, Herold was convicted in reunified Germany for giving a 13 year old athlete illegal drugs. Etc etc

Wtf do you contribute to the anti-doping cause here?

You must be new in the forum. He HATES any fact when this fact doesn't support is view.

It's the usual tactic here by the doping deniers, to go after a particular poster and avoid the subject which is yet another Kenyan bust in a continuous stream of them.

Actually, if you read this thread carefully, Coevett went after me, not the other way around, derailing his own thread by post #11. Unprovoked, he attacked me by name, suggesting I wouldn't be concerned "that most or all of those 15 U20 runners have been juiced out of their heads by coaches/managers seeking to profit from them", effectively derailing his own thread. That's a much bigger scoop, and sounds way more important than Lucy Mawia Muli (who?) busted for Efedrina, Oxycodone, and its metabolite Oxymorphone.

Then, he derailed it further, no longer interested in his big scoop, by dredging up an ancient story about Bernd Dießner from 2009, and then again by dredging up another story from 4 years ago, about a tragic Ethiopian death, an Eritrean Swedish bust, and their sports manager.

Now you accuse me of being a "doping denier", for good measure, and want to blame me for going after a particular poster and avoiding the subject simply by responding to the OP in his own thread.

That's the usual tactic here.

Trust me, you are not nearly as shocked as I am. How to tell me you don't (or can't?) read posts without telling me.

I did not allege that I forgot. I just wasn't sure because of all the factual errors. Now despite being corrected twice by two posters, you still repeat 6 1/2 of the errors:

It's not a 17 year old, but a 24 year old.

It's not Robert, but Robel.

It's not Fisk, but Fsiha.

It's not EPO, but testosterone.

It's not the day before, but two days before.

It's not 20 years old, but 22 years old.

It's not Ethiopian or maybe Eritrean, but only Ethopian. (half credit)

What is shocking is I clearly went out of my way to give you all of this correct information, in the very post you responded to.

"Unfair" is not any of the words that comes to mind.

And the icing on the cake, we have to decipher "discrimatory".

Right, I see none of the usual protagonists either tried to or could actually refute any of this.

Another Kenyan Busted. Massive doping issue in Kenya - it may not be state sponsored or systemically run in a sophisticated manner like other nations, but Kenya is absolutely as bad as any nation (active or banned) in the track and field world. Stop the debating.

You support Coevett lying? Makes sense. You are dishonest and ignorant.

Age cheating is absolutely rampant in Kenya, but that doesn't mean that their actual juniors aren't better than the vast majority of our top juniors, just as their actual seniors are typically better than ours.

So you want us to simultaneously refute facts and stop debating? What do you expect? Shall we repeat the same conversations each time another Kenyan we've never heard of is busted for some new combination of drugs? Will someone from the riff-raff say something revolutionary and eye-opening this time?

For those who are really interested, the facts about Kenyan doping are already well known, having been investigated repeatedly by several anti-doping authorities ever since an ARD report pointed the finger at Kenya in 2012. First and foremost, Kenya has a large talent pool of highly talented distance athletes. Brett Clothier (AIU) confirms "In Kenya, there is a huge pyramid of top-class athletes". This overriding factor will make Kenya's numbers proportionally larger, by every measure, including Kenyan doping and Kenyan busts.

WADA and the AIU and ADAK has looked into Kenyan doping and produced at least two reports available at WADA's website on the doping factors that exist in Kenya. They highlighted two factors: 1) exploitation by foreign agents/coaches as well as local doctors/chemists, and 2) a lack of anti-doping education and awareness among the athletes, as well as doctors, regarding the athletes' obligations when treating the athletes for common running injuries, and illnesses like malaria.

The AIU, especially Brett Clothier, has talked a lot about increasing testing in Kenya ever since the AIU was formed in 2017 (curious since the scandal at that time mainly involved the IAAF and Russia, and two Turkish athletes -- is Kenya the easy scapegoat meant to deflect attention and restore public faith in the newly formed AIU and newly renamed WA?) There is particular emphasis on increasing the number of track and road athletes subject to OOC testing. Clothier talks about Kenya having a pyramid of hundreds or thousands of athletes. "Kenya's unique problem is the sheer abundance of talent that sits below global level." And while the top of the pyramid is "being controlled very well", Kenya is now increasing the testing to include the next tiers in the pyramid. If you increase the number of athletes OOC tested from 38 to more than 300, should anyone find it surprising that an increasing number of lower quality Kenyans (e.g. Lucy Mawia) are getting caught?

Newsflash: increasing testing by a factor of 7 will increase the number of doping positives.

Brett Clothier visited Kenya recently and gave a series of interviews essentially praising Kenya's response at the government level, and telling us that the trends in doping are that international doping busts are declining, while 2nd tier and 3rd tier national doping busts are increasing due to increased testing from ADAK.

I wouldn’t say it’s “absolutely rampant” tbh. It seems more problematic in Ethiopia in recent years. I guess who are we pointing the finger at for age cheating outside of the occasional Zakayo or Edris? The difference between the last 2 Kenyan junior teams and their senior counterparts is pretty obvious. Guys like Kibathi, Kipkirui look young.