If Jakob breaks all world records from the 1500 to the 10k in the next two years, what would you do?

Right, according to what he said afterward, correct? That doesn’t really mean anything to me. Running world record-fast is hard. He ran faster than in Oslo, and he still closed in 40.32, which is very good in such a fast race, and better than we’ve seen from Jakob in his most similar races.

Wake up. Shower. Breakfast. Drive to work. Work. Drive home. Run/gym. Dinner. Hang out with gf or play video games. Sleep.

He got absolutely no drafting on the 2nd lap and a few other times in the race where he never sped up. So there was not much wind-blocking there. I think what gave him that fast finish and ultimately the fast time were the extremely even splits. I mean from 100-1200 meters he kept 13.8-14 sec per 100 and then because of that efficient even pace, he was able to tap into what he had left by going as hard as he could the final 300. It’s a really hard way to race as you are basically letting the pacers get ahead of you but in return he gets the wavelight to run evenly. Perhaps if mcsweyn had stayed a little behind, he would have run faster but this may be the fastest he ever runs for all we know.

What would I do? I would say he is the greatest middle distance runner in history in any conversation I had about him and that's it.

The crazy thing is, even with the 5 and 10 WR's he doesn't pass either Bekele, Geb or Farah in terms on LD greatness - you have to win at the OG and WC's over these distances as well.

As you know, he’s already begun racking up the 5k titles—and Geb never won an Olympic or WC 5k.

Winning Olympic and World Championship titles in the 5k and 10k is going to be much easier for him than breaking the world records.

Look at the 5k race at Budapest, Katir is the European record holder and a doper and Jakob jogs past him on the final stretch after having been sick in the previous couple of days.

Not sure where the "he hasn't time trialled a 1500" narrative is coming from - Jakob, like El Guerrojou did and Morceli before him and every number one guy in these races, has control over the pacemaking. So when the lights are set for 1.5X and the guys are told to run the splits, it's come from Jakob and his team.

Like it's not a time trial per se as sure, there are technically others in the race who could win and the placings matter for $$$ and points - but these are all really time trial races for him. When you have your pacemakers clearly coming off the line and protecting space for you on the track (watch Sowinksi in the opening 60m of that Silesia race), it's a time trial.

And agree, if people think a time trial means he's going out in 1.49 then I guess they will never see a "time trial" because I doubt we ever see this from him. I have said this before many times - if he's going to break 3.26.00 he simply needs to split in the low 2.45's at 1200m at a minimum and I think he sees his best chance of doing that by running close to 55.0 in the third lap rather than running 54.0 for the first. So for him it's more likely we see 1.50 low through 800. It doesn't mean that's not a time trial - to me it's just far more controlled pacing in a time trial because in reality that was the one thing that held El G back from running well into the 3.25's - some of the early splits in his record attempts were actually stupid (Brussels 2001 as a good case in point).

Sick or not, it took everything he had that day to barely get past Katir. He nearly lost that race. And I wouldn’t be so sure he’s not a doper himself.

He probably is, but we know Katir is. The point was to illustrate that winning golds is much easier than breaking world records, when he beats people like Katir even when having a bad day.

Yeah that's correct - but the 5000m is still this funny distance where some people see it as the last middle distance event, others see it as the first long distance event. Even with a WR in the 10000m you couldn't put him ahead of Geb who won 3 WC's/2 OG's over I guess the first unanimous LD event the 10km and definitely not Bekele for obvious reasons. Can't either with Farah who won the global double 4 times across the worlds and olympics and was less than half a second away from doing it an absurd 5 straight times. That is unless he starts running 10's kind of soon right? I just don't know when he does this? Is the 10 on the cards for LA in 2028? Maybe. If it is it certainly means his 1500m running is done. I just think people have this expectation that once he finishes his elite 1500m/mile running he will just move on up to the 5/10 and take that level with him. I just don't know if it works like this. Farah had 7 great seasons, Bekele 9, Geb also 9. Jakob really became elite in 2020 so LA could in theory be his Olympic swan song and maybe he gets to the 2029 worlds wherever they are.

And yet you're still f@ckin jaded and an internet jerk.

@ Koltrast

say he is a doper just to feel more secure (the truth none know it and Katir playing Poker with the alike of you).

This say: Jakob run in that day the last 400m in 53 sec 45 (according to his fanboys).

This alone throw to the water his theory of illness.

52 sec 45 (correct me)

Aouita run 52 sec 93 in the final Rome 1987

1. I don’t know why Jakob would make up this lactate thing.

2. He didn’t follow the pacers despite them running his preferred pace. This gives credit to his sayings about early lactate.

3. He looked the most pumped I ever have seen him afterwards (after a 1500m). He himself also said he felt extremely exhausted afterwards…

You usually have a very good reasoning and a supreme knowledge about athletics. And I think you know you have. Have this made you a little arrogant..?

With all due respect I don't quite follow here. Like what is the argument/disagreement about?

The first thing to be really aware of, is that at some point the pacers simply need to be ahead of him, even though they are running his "preferred" pace. And the more pacers there are, the more he is technically going to appear to be "off the pace" right (distance behind the first guy) - even though he's not. Think about it this way - if his preferred pace is 55.0 and he and his 3 pacers (in the case of the Silesia race) all run 55.0 and he's behind them, where exactly is he meant to be on the track?

The only two entities that mattered in that race were McSweyn and the first yellow pace light - the blue lights aren't his preferred position on the track, that is the "margin" or bubble for the pacers. So when I watch the race, Jakob is never more than maybe 3 YELLOW lights off his ideal pace (and that is from maybe 500-700m in the race). At exactly 800m to go he is 5m behind McS and exactly 3 yellow lights back which is 3 meters or 0.4 seconds off his target. If anything we can make the case that the pace crew, despite doing a relatively good job, weren't absolutely optimal - but then again that is really splitting hairs and being particularly harsh. Fast forward to 1000m and McSweyn is now right at the transition between the blue and yellow lights with Jakob 2m back and this is probably the idea scenario for drafting and a little bit of stride freedom so he doesn't feel like he could possibly catch the back of McSweyns foot at any point.

Maybe Jakob did feel a little lactate early on - no reason to dispute that. But maybe because on this day and situation that was just where he was at physiologically - either way he ran this race pretty close to optimal for his form (it was the 4AT performance ever after all).

Not much to quarrel about here, and I do agree in your final paragraph. But the point Snowflakes and I are doing here is that Jakob got very little draft from the pacers. And that this seems to have something to do with his unexpected early lactate (he couldn’t follow the pacers close enough.) This race was very strange -he ran a fast last 300m despite that early lactate…

I’ve got to be principally here and hope for a bust if the Norwegians are dirty.

But of course I hope they’re not.

When it comes to wether they are dirty or clean I have started having some afterthoughts: I can find a lot of indications for their cleanness, but principally these indications are fluffy and little of worth. For as you keep saying the nature of doping / cheating is that it is hidden. So I hold it open…

And even if I hope my boys will retain their status as clean I still go for my proposal to how to test the athletes during night time (as I proposed in a thread about Katir) -to fight the micro dosing better…

What chances would you give him
a) that he makes it to the moon
b) that he will break all the world records from 1500m to 10000m within the next two years

Nothing. No one cares.