Is this the worst high school track coach ever?

Concerned older brother (2) wrote:

VIT wrote:

i mean, sorry, but as a former XC person (albeit brief), a day consisting of warmup 2/8/2 cooldown would be a walk in the park. this wouldn't even be that hard as a sprint workout if the 8 was reasonably paced. and so on in terms of the workout. we had to do stuff like 6 mile intervals for time. you're beefing about an 8 for time? you just tank it a degree.

i mean, to me, the difference between trying to run, say, a 2 or a 2:30, would mean a lot. i might have one 2 in me. and feel it after. and not be in the mood to go run more later. i get that.

so run a 2:30-40. that i could repeat on command and was well below mile pace. or whatever your guy's equivalent is. stay with the last runner perhaps. is he going to cut both of you?

i think some of my response here is (a) i assume that anything asked of distance runners is expected to be done at "distance runner" pace, ie, not full sprint, more grooved and (b) emotions and grief aside, i look at what's being asked and it's really not a lot. it sounds like a 400/800 runner workout. which is a travesty if you run 3200 or 5k but should be easy mileage for someone who races that far. you just run it like a distance runner instead of a sprinter.

I'm getting the notion that you don't really understand HS training. If my brother was a 16 min 5ker, sure, he could BS the workouts and get away with it. But no, he is a developing young runner. Also, I do not care about your "me personally" statements. They mean nothing in regards to these kids who know nothing about the sport and have very little (if 0) fitness.

Your type who always come to defend these ridiculous coaching regimens always have the same ego. You cannot see the issue from a broader perspective and pass it off as "well the kids gotta do better."

VIT wrote:

this is troll stuff and probably made up. you put a post up seeking help and when offered suggestions the kid in question supposedly magically gets hurt and can't try them. you act today like he's a noob with no fitness who needs to do whatever workout is asked; but the original post was this was unfair to ask; pick one. i know enough about distance running to know that having the kids run less than race distance per day is way too easy and not too hard. common. sense. you attack "me personally" comments but to me if an 800 time trial is exhausting how are you running a 2 mile for a meet race end of the week. i was a sprinter dabbling at XC and i could run you these workouts in my sleep.

the other responding poster sounds like a sock puppet. am i "defending the regime" or am i "interfering?" you kind of have to pick a lane here. i think i was pretty clear. the distance asked is minimal. the issue is effort asked -- assuming any of this is real. you just do that bit slower. you can then supplement on the side. but the OP can't seem to make up his mind whether he wants to supplement or not. he's like the dude has to run it hard because he's a noob. only if that's all the work he gets, no? if he's supplementing for real, then you can do the effort in the supplement as needed. duh. i was simply saying if that 800 time trial wrecks the week, dog the time trial.

the sheer volume of contradictions and ad hominems suggest the idea here was to fight, or that it was trolling all along. if there is any reality here, the workouts are silly, but the solution seems obvious and you then do whatever on the side. fighting the obvious suggests this was more about fighting all along.

LocalRoadRaces wrote:

VIT wrote:

this is troll stuff and probably made up. you put a post up seeking help and when offered suggestions the kid in question supposedly magically gets hurt and can't try them. you act today like he's a noob with no fitness who needs to do whatever workout is asked; but the original post was this was unfair to ask; pick one. i know enough about distance running to know that having the kids run less than race distance per day is way too easy and not too hard. common. sense. you attack "me personally" comments but to me if an 800 time trial is exhausting how are you running a 2 mile for a meet race end of the week. i was a sprinter dabbling at XC and i could run you these workouts in my sleep.

the other responding poster sounds like a sock puppet. am i "defending the regime" or am i "interfering?" you kind of have to pick a lane here. i think i was pretty clear. the distance asked is minimal. the issue is effort asked -- assuming any of this is real. you just do that bit slower. you can then supplement on the side. but the OP can't seem to make up his mind whether he wants to supplement or not. he's like the dude has to run it hard because he's a noob. only if that's all the work he gets, no? if he's supplementing for real, then you can do the effort in the supplement as needed. duh. i was simply saying if that 800 time trial wrecks the week, dog the time trial.

the sheer volume of contradictions and ad hominems suggest the idea here was to fight, or that it was trolling all along. if there is any reality here, the workouts are silly, but the solution seems obvious and you then do whatever on the side. fighting the obvious suggests this was more about fighting all along.

Dude, maybe it was a troll post, but you also just don't get how HS XC training works, and didn't read the original post.

You also don't know how HS track training works—a sprinter dabbling in XC, right, not surprised a sprinter doesn't get it.

Bottom line—running hard, all-out sprints isn't how you train safely for 1600 and 3200. It's how you break a kid down, get shin splints or other injuries, and it's just bad.

It's the kind of training folks did that broke kids back in the 1980s and 1990s. (And I know; I ran competitively on club teams then.)

To be clear, I'm not attacking you personally with this post. But I *am* stating you're ignorant about distance training for track and XC.

VIT wrote:

this is troll stuff and probably made up. you put a post up seeking help and when offered suggestions the kid in question supposedly magically gets hurt and can't try them. you act today like he's a noob with no fitness who needs to do whatever workout is asked; but the original post was this was unfair to ask; pick one. i know enough about distance running to know that having the kids run less than race distance per day is way too easy and not too hard. common. sense. you attack "me personally" comments but to me if an 800 time trial is exhausting how are you running a 2 mile for a meet race end of the week. i was a sprinter dabbling at XC and i could run you these workouts in my sleep.

the other responding poster sounds like a sock puppet. am i "defending the regime" or am i "interfering?" you kind of have to pick a lane here. i think i was pretty clear. the distance asked is minimal. the issue is effort asked -- assuming any of this is real. you just do that bit slower. you can then supplement on the side. but the OP can't seem to make up his mind whether he wants to supplement or not. he's like the dude has to run it hard because he's a noob. only if that's all the work he gets, no? if he's supplementing for real, then you can do the effort in the supplement as needed. duh. i was simply saying if that 800 time trial wrecks the week, dog the time trial.

the sheer volume of contradictions and ad hominems suggest the idea here was to fight, or that it was trolling all along. if there is any reality here, the workouts are silly, but the solution seems obvious and you then do whatever on the side. fighting the obvious suggests this was more about fighting all along.

Concerned older brother wrote:

So here's the deal, my younger brother has been running for about 3 years. I have coached him for about 2 and a half. He first started running to lose weight as he was obese, and then found himself really liking the sport. When I first started coaching him, he was a 35 min 5ker. After a year he ran his first sub 25 and was showing a lot of potential now that he had lost more weight and was starting to develop some strength. When he ran sub 25, it was the May before he went to high school. He was super excited to finally run on a team and I was as well. Training was going very well with only a few minor hiccups. He ran his first XC meet in low 23's, and felt like he had more to give. We were excited for the season.

I tried to keep my coaching to a minimum so as not to be disrespectful to his actual coach, but it was a disaster. He did not improve one second throughout the entire season. His coach had no clue what he was doing, and would have then run erratically. Once that horrific season was over, I developed a winter program (his HS does not have indoor track) that focused on strength and consistency. He improved tremendously by late January, and was tempoing his 5k PR. This was very exciting because he was still in the base phase, and was clearly showing a breakthrough in fitness. I then constructed the second phase which focused on plenty of threshold work and speed introduction. However, a sudden torn growth plate stopped him in his tracks. Luckily, it wasn't that bad and he only had to take 5 weeks off of running. In the meantime, he cross trained on an elliptical and kept the aerobic intensity up.

Once he was ready to run again, outdoor track practice had started up. Thankfully, the XC coach did not coach distance for track, and he was told that he would be able to do most of his own training. Boy was that not the truth.

The first practice was fine. He was able to do easy mileage as he had planned, and everything seemed like it would be ok. The next practice is where it started to go downhill. The track coach, who coaches sprints, jumps, throws AND distance, had the distance runners do a lap warmup, then rip a 400 and two 200s with a combined 20 minutes rest. The next practice was even worse. The coach told them to NOT DO A WARMUP and run an 800 METER TIME TRIAL. This is what set me off the edge. Following the 800 they did a 400 and two 200s basically all out. THE VERY NEXT DAY (sorry for caps but I must convey my anger) the coach had them do a ONE LAP WARMUP and rip two 200s, an 800, and one 200. This is outrageous. The only time my brother can get mileage is when there isn't practice, and he has practice 3 days a week. He only runs 6 days so that is only 3 other days for a long run and easy miles. This is not sustainable. Every single practice is like this, one lap warmup then rip some ridiculous short interval. My brother had to beg the coach to let him warmup today as they were doing another 800 "time trial." Coach only let him do one lap.

My brother is very frustrated and so am I. His XC coach was bad enough and now this guy? My brother has so much potential as I was and still am a very good runner, but it is very difficult to reach that potential with such inconsistent, sporadic, and downright idiotic methods of training. It pains me to even call what his coaches are doing "training." My brother even confronted him about the daily workouts and the answer he got was "I'm making cuts at some point," THERE ARE FIVE DISTANCE RUNNERS ON THE TEAM. And if you couldn't tell, they guy is a sprint coach pretending to coach distance. I'm sorry for the long post but this I had to vent this out. If you read the entire thing please tell me what you think and what you would do in this situation. I feel like I should meet with the coach to discuss training. Not only do I want my brother to have good training that makes him better, but I want other kids to as well. None of the kids on his team have ever had any real training and it shows. How are they to ever appreciate the sport when they associate it with inconsistency and lunacy?

WCRR wrote:

Concerned older brother wrote:

So here's the deal, my younger brother has been running for about 3 years. I have coached him for about 2 and a half. He first started running to lose weight as he was obese, and then found himself really liking the sport. When I first started coaching him, he was a 35 min 5ker. After a year he ran his first sub 25 and was showing a lot of potential now that he had lost more weight and was starting to develop some strength. When he ran sub 25, it was the May before he went to high school. He was super excited to finally run on a team and I was as well. Training was going very well with only a few minor hiccups. He ran his first XC meet in low 23's, and felt like he had more to give. We were excited for the season.

I tried to keep my coaching to a minimum so as not to be disrespectful to his actual coach, but it was a disaster. He did not improve one second throughout the entire season. His coach had no clue what he was doing, and would have then run erratically. Once that horrific season was over, I developed a winter program (his HS does not have indoor track) that focused on strength and consistency. He improved tremendously by late January, and was tempoing his 5k PR. This was very exciting because he was still in the base phase, and was clearly showing a breakthrough in fitness. I then constructed the second phase which focused on plenty of threshold work and speed introduction. However, a sudden torn growth plate stopped him in his tracks. Luckily, it wasn't that bad and he only had to take 5 weeks off of running. In the meantime, he cross trained on an elliptical and kept the aerobic intensity up.

Once he was ready to run again, outdoor track practice had started up. Thankfully, the XC coach did not coach distance for track, and he was told that he would be able to do most of his own training. Boy was that not the truth.

The first practice was fine. He was able to do easy mileage as he had planned, and everything seemed like it would be ok. The next practice is where it started to go downhill. The track coach, who coaches sprints, jumps, throws AND distance, had the distance runners do a lap warmup, then rip a 400 and two 200s with a combined 20 minutes rest. The next practice was even worse. The coach told them to NOT DO A WARMUP and run an 800 METER TIME TRIAL. This is what set me off the edge. Following the 800 they did a 400 and two 200s basically all out. THE VERY NEXT DAY (sorry for caps but I must convey my anger) the coach had them do a ONE LAP WARMUP and rip two 200s, an 800, and one 200. This is outrageous. The only time my brother can get mileage is when there isn't practice, and he has practice 3 days a week. He only runs 6 days so that is only 3 other days for a long run and easy miles. This is not sustainable. Every single practice is like this, one lap warmup then rip some ridiculous short interval. My brother had to beg the coach to let him warmup today as they were doing another 800 "time trial." Coach only let him do one lap.

My brother is very frustrated and so am I. His XC coach was bad enough and now this guy? My brother has so much potential as I was and still am a very good runner, but it is very difficult to reach that potential with such inconsistent, sporadic, and downright idiotic methods of training. It pains me to even call what his coaches are doing "training." My brother even confronted him about the daily workouts and the answer he got was "I'm making cuts at some point," THERE ARE FIVE DISTANCE RUNNERS ON THE TEAM. And if you couldn't tell, they guy is a sprint coach pretending to coach distance. I'm sorry for the long post but this I had to vent this out. If you read the entire thing please tell me what you think and what you would do in this situation. I feel like I should meet with the coach to discuss training. Not only do I want my brother to have good training that makes him better, but I want other kids to as well. None of the kids on his team have ever had any real training and it shows. How are they to ever appreciate the sport when they associate it with inconsistency and lunacy?

Still crazy laughing at a team that only has 5 Distance Runners!!!! I guess the coach doesn’t care about winning meets either. Haha