Except quarterbacks, holders and kickers, in D-1 Am. football and N.F.L., how close are all other athletes on team to 600/400 standard? That is 600 lbs. free weight squat (all the way down) and 400 lbs. bench press. The somewhat go together, bench press and free-weight squat.There is a minimum amount of upperbody strength required to hold and balance bar with weight in order to free weight squat.
If by "somewhat," you mean, "hardly," then yes. Bench and "free weight" (fyi no one calls it that) aka barbell squatting strength have very little cross over. Every strength coach will tell you not to hold the weight in your hands and that your shoulders/traps need to hold the weight in the squat, which will also get stronger as your squat numbers go up. Your arms/hands are more for stabilization and making sure the bar doesn't roll off of you. You don't need to do any upper body work to prevent this from happening, minus stretching and mobility exercises.
Proof - Squatting is obviously essential and absolutely necessary for Olympic weightlifters yet they rarely, if EVER, bench press. You WILL see tons of overhead pressing, push pressing, and jerks for sefl evident reasons, though. The muscles worked from the bench don't really carry over to the clean and jerk/snatch, and many lifters will tell you a l more developed chest restricts the mobility needed to catch a snatch or jerk.
I certainly agree that spending a lot of time bench pressing and developing the pectorals might hurt your 5K!
Lots of studies out there on overall health and wellbeing, where resistance training and aerobic exercise combined results in better health, longer healthy living, and longer lifespan, than just aerobic exercise or resistance training alone. I'd think increasing your chance of being healthy increases your chances of running well, no matter your age/ability.
The resistance training decreases your chances of getting all sorts of ailments, even at younger ages. If I'm not going to run more, I wouldn't mind spending time doing something that boosts my immune system and other important bodily functions.
I agree with you and as we get older it seems that weight training becomes even more important than when we were younger for general fitness.
Except quarterbacks, holders and kickers, in D-1 Am. football and N.F.L., how close are all other athletes on team to 600/400 standard? That is 600 lbs. free weight squat (all the way down) and 400 lbs. bench press. The somewhat go together, bench press and free-weight squat. There is a minimum amount of upperbody strength required to hold and balance bar with weight in order to free weight squat.
You do not hold the bar on your back with your hands. You use your traps/upper back as a shelf and the hands are basically there to ensure it remains in position.
Also....do people on the spectrum flood Letsrun by the dozens now?
Alan
I will ignore your asinine last sentence.
Thank you for your lesson regarding holding bar.
One still needs a minimum amount of upper body strength to free weight squat regardless of your post. Can a gal or guy who bench presses no more than 135 lbs. workout with (600 or 650) lbs. while free weight squatting? Impossible, not strong enough to balance the weight and hold the bar. Can a gal or guy who bench presses no more than 250 lbs. work out with (600 or 650) lbs. while free weight squatting? I don't see it happening. I do not know what is the minimum bench press to work out with (600 or 650) lbs. but you don't know either.
Smart @ss, you should have sat this thread out. You contributed nothing. I mentioned 600 lbs. free weight squatting and you offered no specific response. If you can't squat 600 lbs., you should have stayed off the thread.
I'd disagree with #1, but you don't need much lifting to make a difference.
There's not enough evidence for #2 though. Anecdotally, it's not as if lifters who start running don't get injured at the same rates. The one study I've seen found no difference, but then when they excluded the runners who didn't complete the full lifting program, they claim there's a much lower incidence of injury. Yeah of course, they probably didn't complete the program because they got injured. Total survivorship bias.
Except quarterbacks, holders and kickers, in D-1 Am. football and N.F.L., how close are all other athletes on team to 600/400 standard? That is 600 lbs. free weight squat (all the way down) and 400 lbs. bench press. The somewhat go together, bench press and free-weight squat. There is a minimum amount of upperbody strength required to hold and balance bar with weight in order to free weight squat.
You do not hold the bar on your back with your hands. You use your traps/upper back as a shelf and the hands are basically there to ensure it remains in position.
Also....do people on the spectrum flood Letsrun by the dozens now?
Alan
Ehhh... yes and no IMO. I went through a big squatting hypertrophy block a while ago. All high bar back squat, well below 90 degrees. My squat numbers went way up. I put on a surprising amount of upper body mass from it even though I was barely doing any upper body. Just holding a heavy bar on my back for a lot of big sets really got to me.
And then front squats. Now that'll blow up your upper body.
Just because people have been successful with and without strength training added to their distance training program, doesn't mean either is correct. But research has repeatedly shown pretty high correlations between running and increased performance in trained and untrained individuals. While VO2 max is the biggest variable, it's not the only variable. If that were the case running economy and lactate threshold would never be examined in the lab or worked on in training. This argument drives me crazy. Now that's not to say there aren't a lot of meat head strength coaches that place an over importance on this or train completely incorrectly. Which is also not a reason to not do strength training or plyometric training. Below are the 5 most citied studies/meta analysis that show how much it can help. Research isn't perfect, but with this many studies and meta analysis it would be highly unlikely for all of them to be wrong over nearly 4 decades of measuring these affects in the lab.
Study Title: Strength training for distance running: A primer. Authors: Kenney, W. Larry, and Jack H. Wilmore Published: Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2012
Study Title: Concurrent strength and endurance training: A review. Authors: Hickson, R. C. Published: Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 1980
- The effects of strength training on running economy in highly trained runners: A systematic review with meta-analysis of controlled trials. Authors: Berryman, Nicolas, et al. Published: Sports Medicine, 2018
- The effects of strength training on running economy in highly trained runners: A systematic review with meta-analysis of controlled trials. Authors: Rønnestad, Bent R., and Ingvild B. Hansen Published: Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 2016
- Concurrent endurance and explosive type strength training improves neuromuscular and anaerobic characteristics in young distance runners. Authors: Taipale, Ritva S., et al. Published: International Journal of Sports Medicine, 2014
Background Running economy is defined as the energy demand at submaximal running speed, a key determinant of overall running performance. Strength training can improve running economy, although the magnitude of its effect may...
Strength training for sprinters is a necessity. Just ask the greatest to have ever done the sprints - Usain Bolt. It was mandatory for us when I ran competitively.
Strength training for sprinters is a necessity. Just ask the greatest to have ever done the sprints - Usain Bolt. It was mandatory for us when I ran competitively.
With sprinting, the start is crucial and during those first few steps the knees are much more bent than at any time during a distance race. So, heavy quad work makes sense for a sprinter. They also do very low volume training and have time to recover from heavy lifting.
Anyone who thinks that a hard heavy squat workout will not compromise the training of a marathoner attempting 100+ mile weeks has never done a hard heavy squat workout.
Distance running is mainly plantar flexion. So, calf training should be the primary focus anyway.
This post was edited 47 seconds after it was posted.
A famous Running professor is preaching the following two so-called myths of strength training and running. Help me out here, is he crazy or am I crazy?
MYTH: Strength Training Makes You Faster:
"Distance running is primarily limited by the delivery and use of oxygen. There is no evidence that strength training increases cardiac output, oxygen transport, or mitochondrial respiration, nor that strength training makes someone faster beyond just running more volume or intensity. Nearly all the difference between runners’ race times can be explained collectively by VO2max, speed at lactate threshold, running economy, and anaerobic capacity. If someone strength trains and then happens to run a faster race, that doesn’t support that strength training was the cause."
(Wait a minute..."Running Economy" is not enhanced by weight training or hill running? Also, I would love to hear his reasons for why most of the top runners in the world waste so much time in the weight room. Even Kenyans use light weights during the off-season!)
MYTH: Strength Training Prevents Running Injuries:
(Okay, why did I just spend 7 months training with a physical therapist who mostly had me doing strength or balance work to solve my Achilles, Plantar Fasciitis, and Shoulder Rotator Cuff injuries? We also did some static stretches, he must have been wacko, but it worked, especially the calve raises! This professor dude has actually bragged about his calves and how muscular they are and how they increase his performance! The irony is humorous.)
I believe strength training helps every activity, including running.
That being said, if someone were to get serious about weight training/bodybuilding and gain significant weight, of course their running times will most likely suffer, as you are then carrying more weight.
1. Depends on body type. Some runners have a tendency to develop muscle mass quickly. Steve Prefontaine was barrel-chested. Those folks don't need upper-body strength training. But if you are 6 foot and 130 pounds (like a lot of high schoolers) you will improve by putting on 10 pounds of muscle.
2. Depends on age. Most 20-25 year olds probably will not benefit from more strength training. If some guy can bench 10 x 135, getting his bench up to 10 x 155 would do absolutely nothing for his running. But many young runners are probably too weak. And hobby-joggers are almost always too weak. Some 50 year old who runs a 19 minute 5k and never lifts probably would benefit a lot from lifting.
3. Same with leg strength/squats. If you are particularly weak, then squats will help. But once you get to a reasonable level of leg strength, squats probably don't help. Most 16 year olds probably don't have strong enough quads. Most 20 year olds probably do. Most 50 year olds probably don't.
4. Depends on event. There is a reason that 800 runners are 6 foot 165 and marathoners are 6 foot 135.
5. Strengthening core is obviously helpful.
6. Hills and sprints are obviously helpful.
7. Strengthening feet and shin muscles etc. obviously helps prevent injuries.
8. .:. Lifting 30-45 minutes three times a week is really a no-brainer.
1. Depends on body type. Some runners have a tendency to develop muscle mass quickly. Steve Prefontaine was barrel-chested. Those folks don't need upper-body strength training. But if you are 6 foot and 130 pounds (like a lot of high schoolers) you will improve by putting on 10 pounds of muscle.
2. Depends on age. Most 20-25 year olds probably will not benefit from more strength training. If some guy can bench 10 x 135, getting his bench up to 10 x 155 would do absolutely nothing for his running. But many young runners are probably too weak. And hobby-joggers are almost always too weak. Some 50 year old who runs a 19 minute 5k and never lifts probably would benefit a lot from lifting.
3. Same with leg strength/squats. If you are particularly weak, then squats will help. But once you get to a reasonable level of leg strength, squats probably don't help. Most 16 year olds probably don't have strong enough quads. Most 20 year olds probably do. Most 50 year olds probably don't.
4. Depends on event. There is a reason that 800 runners are 6 foot 165 and marathoners are 6 foot 135.
5. Strengthening core is obviously helpful.
6. Hills and sprints are obviously helpful.
7. Strengthening feet and shin muscles etc. obviously helps prevent injuries.
8. .:. Lifting 30-45 minutes three times a week is really a no-brainer.
For overall health and fitness, IMO, strength training is of more value than a big aerobic base. It just doesn’t make you a faster marathoner.
Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win a LetsRun t-shirt.Help us build the best running shoe review site for a chance to win one of 10 LetsRun t-shirts.
