I'm highly suspicious of Narve Nordås

The Realist wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Of course Nordas and his improvement is remarkable, and hopefully he is being scrutinised closely and tested more often than most, but on a scale of 1 -10 likely doping I would say :

Jake Wightman 1

Nick Willis 1

Josh Kerr 2 (for being based in USA)

Jakob 2.5 (simply for being so good)

Nordas 3.5 (remarkable improvement)

Nuguse 4 (remarkable improvement)

Potato Tim 7.5 (Kenyan, training partner of Manangois)

Makhloufi 9.5

Katir 10 (before suspension)

Wow, aren't you the biased optimist. I would say:

Jake Wightman 8 (gold medalist)
Nick Willis 8 (silver medalist, 1500 m (!) PRs while over 30)
Josh Kerr 8 (gold medalist)
Jakob 10 (way too dominant, likely doping brother/teammate, questionable coach)
Nordas 9 (remarkable improvement, questionable coach)
Nuguse 9 (almost world record, questionable coach)
Cheruiyot 9.5 (gold medalist, banned training partner)
Makhloufi 10 (gold medalist, questionable coach, bag of drugs)
Katir 9.5 (incredible progression, silver medalist)

The Realist wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Of course Nordas and his improvement is remarkable, and hopefully he is being scrutinised closely and tested more often than most, but on a scale of 1 -10 likely doping I would say :

Jake Wightman 1

Nick Willis 1

Josh Kerr 2 (for being based in USA)

Jakob 2.5 (simply for being so good)

Nordas 3.5 (remarkable improvement)

Nuguse 4 (remarkable improvement)

Potato Tim 7.5 (Kenyan, training partner of Manangois)

Makhloufi 9.5

Katir 10 (before suspension)

Wow, aren't you the biased optimist. I would say:

Jake Wightman 8 (gold medalist)
Nick Willis 8 (silver medalist, 1500 m (!) PRs while over 30)
Josh Kerr 8 (gold medalist)
Jakob 10 (way too dominant, likely doping brother/teammate, questionable coach)
Nordas 9 (remarkable improvement, questionable coach)
Nuguse 9 (almost world record, questionable coach)
Cheruiyot 9.5 (gold medalist, banned training partner)
Makhloufi 10 (gold medalist, questionable coach, bag of drugs)
Katir 9.5 (incredible progression, silver medalist)

The Realist wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Of course Nordas and his improvement is remarkable, and hopefully he is being scrutinised closely and tested more often than most, but on a scale of 1 -10 likely doping I would say :

Jake Wightman 1

Nick Willis 1

Josh Kerr 2 (for being based in USA)

Jakob 2.5 (simply for being so good)

Nordas 3.5 (remarkable improvement)

Nuguse 4 (remarkable improvement)

Potato Tim 7.5 (Kenyan, training partner of Manangois)

Makhloufi 9.5

Katir 10 (before suspension)

Wow, aren't you the biased optimist. I would say:

Jake Wightman 8 (gold medalist)
Nick Willis 8 (silver medalist, 1500 m (!) PRs while over 30)
Josh Kerr 8 (gold medalist)
Jakob 10 (way too dominant, likely doping brother/teammate, questionable coach)
Nordas 9 (remarkable improvement, questionable coach)
Nuguse 9 (almost world record, questionable coach)
Cheruiyot 9.5 (gold medalist, banned training partner)
Makhloufi 10 (gold medalist, questionable coach, bag of drugs)
Katir 9.5 (incredible progression, silver medalist)

Dougie Buckets wrote:

The Realist wrote:

Wow, aren't you the biased optimist. I would say:

Jake Wightman 8 (gold medalist)
Nick Willis 8 (silver medalist, 1500 m (!) PRs while over 30)
Josh Kerr 8 (gold medalist)
Jakob 10 (way too dominant, likely doping brother/teammate, questionable coach)
Nordas 9 (remarkable improvement, questionable coach)
Nuguse 9 (almost world record, questionable coach)
Cheruiyot 9.5 (gold medalist, banned training partner)
Makhloufi 10 (gold medalist, questionable coach, bag of drugs)
Katir 9.5 (incredible progression, silver medalist)

It’s hard to be completely unbiased doing this little speculative exercise, but I would go something like:

Wightman - 7

Willis - 7

Kerr - 8

Nuguse - 8

Cheruiyot - 9

Nordas - 9

Ingebrigtsen - 9.5

Katir - 9.5 (pre-bust)

Farah - 10

Ayanleh Souleiman - 10

Genzebe Dibaba - 10

Makhloufi - 10

Coevett wrote:

Really!!! wrote:

It's fascinating how people believe their own B.S.

Yor hate blinds you so much. did some minority take your girlfriend away from you?

300+ doping busts in Kenya, including Olympic champions, World champions, World record holders. Countless Moroccan busts, including Moroccans competing for European countries, and including some of the most outrageously obvious dopers in history such as Ramzi and Katir. Almost killed the sport with their doping and world records that are only now being approached 20 years later with kangaroo tracks and shoes. Another Kenyan dropped dead the other day. But you'll beat one off to the idea that Africans have super efficient calves and throw the race card whenever points out it's doping. GFY.

RunLuppa wrote:

Katir - 3:28.76 - 10th all-time

Nordas - 3:29.47 - 30th all-time

It's still a remarkable improvement and warrants suspicion but these times aren't exactly equivalent.

Nordas' training base is probably better than most 1500m runners in the world. He's been training with the Ingebrigtsens in some capacity since he was 15. So for a decade he's been doing the type of training that the world is just starting to copy.

2023 was the first year he trained specifically for the 1500m. He only ran the event twice since 2020 (x0 1500's in 2021, x2 1500's in 2022). So with a solid aerobic base, he made a big improvements from training specifically, going to altitude for the first time and running the event far more often (x13 in 2023). Still suspicious? Sure. Equally as suspicious as Katir? No.

blagaduccio wrote:

Norway was also slammed by WADA for its failure to test underage athletes.

The head of biathlon has been arrepted for corruption and collusion with Russia

Norway has a lot of problems with doping in its most prevalent sports like biathlon and cross country skiing. The only reason it hasnt shown up in athletics yet is because there were so few of them before the recent surge

So your scale is only your opinion and is not supported by facts. Similarly you can choose to blindly accept Nordas explanations for such an improvement while disregarding the others explanations but do not pretend it is any kind of rational or objective analysis.

Coevett wrote:

Really!!! wrote:

It's fascinating how people believe their own B.S.

Yor hate blinds you so much. did some minority take your girlfriend away from you?

300+ doping busts in Kenya, including Olympic champions, World champions, World record holders. Countless Moroccan busts, including Moroccans competing for European countries, and including some of the most outrageously obvious dopers in history such as Ramzi and Katir. Almost killed the sport with their doping and world records that are only now being approached 20 years later with kangaroo tracks and shoes. Another Kenyan dropped dead the other day. But you'll beat one off to the idea that Africans have super efficient calves and throw the race card whenever points out it's doping. GFY.

Hmmmm. wrote:

Hocker moved 11 seconds in 1 year with no tests,then stops.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Coevett fact check time:

Nordas did not switch coaches. He’s been coached by Gjert for years. Altitude being introduced into his training and the removal of the brothers from the group is what changed if you are looking for something.

NuguseTidBit wrote:

Two missed whereabouts tests for the GOOSE

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Nordas is going to be tested a lot this year. It sounds like from investigative reporting that Spanish anti-doping was in cahoots with Katir, and intentionally giving him a wide berth that thankfully the AIU was able to expose. So, let's hope the Norwegian authorities aren't like that, and we at least know that Nordas is on a level playing field with everyone else (e.g. he's been tested the last 5-6 months). I've made a thread about it before that I think his progression/breakthrough most resembles Shelby Houlihan's and it gives me pause, but I obviously hope he is clean and backs up last year's breakthrough.