If you've met "real athletes" in person you will have met a doper at some point. Can you tell or do they simply all just look like "conditioned" athletes to you?
That's a silly question, and you know it.
What does a 'doped athlete' look like? Unless an athlete is doing hardcore, lifter levels of gear, it is extremely difficult to tell by just looking at them.
And in multiple, real-case scenarios, many doped women just do not have big muscles. The best examples would be East German women & the more recent Russian women. Looking at the physiques of their 400m women, you would have no idea they were on steroids. Did Sabine Busch looked 'roided up? Dagmar Neubaeur? What about Tatyana Firova, or Natalya Antyukh?
There seems to be this assumption that a doped athlete = 'big' muscles. Or 'big' muscles = a doped athlete. On top of that, we have this skinny-boy view that any woman with some level of musculature is doped, because said skinny-boy has no muscles himself.
Well guess what skinny-boys, there are clean women out there that work hard and have muscles, that are conditioned and fit. And some of these women are 6ft tall and athletic, they intimidate and tower over skinny-boys. Skinny-boy armchair critics seem to forget that these women are the cream of the crop, elite athletes following an advanced training programme and diet. They aren't popping to the gym after a 9-5 doing 45mins of weights, 3 times a week.
How do we tell if an athlete is doped? We look at their progression, we look at their coaching set-up, we look at where they compete, and if they compete outside their own country, we look at their management set-up....and yes, we look at their appearance. But unless a woman has facial hair, or is hugely muscled, or has acne and bacne, or has a very low voice, you simply cannot tell by looks alone! And Lieke Klaver has no facial hair, she is NOT hugely muscled (I repeat, she is conditioned) she has no acne or bacne and is not low voiced. She's just a tall, elite, female athlete.
Your argument is good to a point - but it also exposes you to the counter argument that standing next to a well conditioned athlete doesn't enable to you confidently conclude they aren't doping. If you say appearance isn't much of an indicator then a doper can look much like another fit athlete.
It isn't my view however. I think you need quite a parcel of indicators, quite apart from physical build, to form a view of likely (as distinct from possible - just about anyone now is possible) doping. However, in this era I wouldn't give many top athletes a pass. The chances of their doping are pretty high.
Your argument is good to a point - but it also exposes you to the counter argument that standing next to a well conditioned athlete doesn't enable to you confidently conclude they aren't doping. If you say appearance isn't much of an indicator then a doper can look much like another fit athlete.
It isn't my view however. I think you need quite a parcel of indicators, quite apart from physical build, to form a view of likely (as distinct from possible - just about anyone now is possible) doping. However, in this era I wouldn't give many top athletes a pass. The chances of their doping are pretty high.
My view is that appearance is only an indicator if they portray obvious symptoms of steroid usage. Which is why I base my opinion on whether an athlete is doped on multiple factors, appearance being one of them, but not the key factor unless it is glaringly obvious.
What is glaringly obvious? For me, someone like South African Carina Horn. Her musculature is more like a heavy weight cross fitter or power lifter. But in addition, she also has a pronounced jaw and teeth. Then someone like the Russian Antonina Krivoshapka, who had a very masculine jawline and moustache. I have used these two examples as we know they have cheated. I could point to other women who have not been proven, but I want to be careful. But there is a retired American woman, still living, who at one point was the "fastest living woman in the world", and her voice had changed quite dramatically over the years, she sounded like a teenage boy going through puberty.
For some reason, some men seem to set the bar very low at what level of musculature they think a woman can achieve naturally. It seems to be from am amateur perspective, because they are casual athletes, or only work out themselves a few times a week, and because they cannot get bigger, oh no, a woman couldn't possibly either. They also seem to forget that, just like with men, some woman are naturally bigger, or stronger, or broader, or more gifted, than others. Which is why some women get into power or speed sports vs those that go into endurance sports.
As I said, I have met Lieke, more than once, and the woman I see on my TV and in images looks about 7 - 10 lbs heavier than she is in real life.
That was decent from her, she was quick to get under the bar, which never went higher than her navel or the bottom of her ribs.
It’s the quickness that is critical, along with the right position that lets you pivot around the bar while it is in free space.
Nice, but the hand strength is more impressive to me, chicks don’t usually have that much of it. Maybe she had a proper lifting grip, idk.
Again: nice!
Yeah I know alot of it is technique. I mean I know she's nowhere near my 375 for 3 bench press. And I know I have some parts of my body that are extremely strong and some parts that are just average or well below average. Another example would be my calves are really strong and way above average and my quads are pretty much below average based on my squat.
My biceps and shoulders are another weak point for me. My chest isn't. I just didn't think that I would suck this bad in this lift that after like 4 years doing it I can't even come close to 230 or 235. Most of the time i'm at 190-200. So most of the time i'm about 20 lbs less than my PR. To get speed though you need some type of shoulder strength. I just can't believe that she got this up.
I mean yeah if we put her on bench press I bet she barely gets 185-195. So i'm still way above her on that at least. But damnit. How do you get that strong in this? I can't suck that bad in technique. I'm trying to lift it as fast as possible off the ground and I deadlift way more than she does(currently 605-615). So I don't get it.
And yeah does anyone have any idea what pro track athletes eat?? I need ratios, carbs, protein,, etc. Also why can't we ever hear from pro athletes on here? I don't get that. Seems shady. That they refuse to post here or shy away from it. What's the big deal? Talk to your fans. Instagram isn't a running forum. I mean why is that the only place they post?
Or if they post here it seems like they hide behind screen names. What are they so afraid about saying that's going to get them fired or something? I don't get that. Why can't they just be cooler and post somewhere other than instagram?
Or am I wrong about this? I've been following this forum for over 10 years and I don't think i've ever seen a verified famous track athlete post here in any of the threads? Is this true?
Your argument is good to a point - but it also exposes you to the counter argument that standing next to a well conditioned athlete doesn't enable to you confidently conclude they aren't doping. If you say appearance isn't much of an indicator then a doper can look much like another fit athlete.
It isn't my view however. I think you need quite a parcel of indicators, quite apart from physical build, to form a view of likely (as distinct from possible - just about anyone now is possible) doping. However, in this era I wouldn't give many top athletes a pass. The chances of their doping are pretty high.
My view is that appearance is only an indicator if they portray obvious symptoms of steroid usage. Which is why I base my opinion on whether an athlete is doped on multiple factors, appearance being one of them, but not the key factor unless it is glaringly obvious.
What is glaringly obvious? For me, someone like South African Carina Horn. Her musculature is more like a heavy weight cross fitter or power lifter. But in addition, she also has a pronounced jaw and teeth. Then someone like the Russian Antonina Krivoshapka, who had a very masculine jawline and moustache. I have used these two examples as we know they have cheated. I could point to other women who have not been proven, but I want to be careful. But there is a retired American woman, still living, who at one point was the "fastest living woman in the world", and her voice had changed quite dramatically over the years, she sounded like a teenage boy going through puberty.
For some reason, some men seem to set the bar very low at what level of musculature they think a woman can achieve naturally. It seems to be from am amateur perspective, because they are casual athletes, or only work out themselves a few times a week, and because they cannot get bigger, oh no, a woman couldn't possibly either. They also seem to forget that, just like with men, some woman are naturally bigger, or stronger, or broader, or more gifted, than others. Which is why some women get into power or speed sports vs those that go into endurance sports.
As I said, I have met Lieke, more than once, and the woman I see on my TV and in images looks about 7 - 10 lbs heavier than she is in real life.
I'm beginning to realize that there are some really crazy natural strength people out there. People like Bugenhagen. Look him up on youtube. He's 100 percent natural and lifts a ton of weight in basically everything. He was doing like 220 lb barbell below parallel one legged pistol squats in one video, 420 lb dumbbell lunges in another video, 800 pound behind the back deadlifts at 225 lbs, 300 lb cheat curls, 700 lb deadlift at 225, ect. You have to look up 2016 and before vids when he was 225 lbs and below though because he's doing this weight gain thing and weighs too much right now. Probably around 285 right now.
But yeah I guess it's on the female side too. And she's probably just one of those perfect athletes that put it all together and everything. And is 100 percent natural like Bugenhagen.
So yeah i'm beginning to realize that there are alot more people in the world like this than I previously had thought.
Here's an example of one of Bugenhagens lifts below. 900 lb trap bar deadlift from 2015.....He takes a ton of coffee and caffeine before workouts.
Even I'm amazed I pulled this off lol. I knew I'd be able to do it but I didn't think it'd be so soon. Just goes to show, get enough caffiene, adrenaline, an...
Yeah I know alot of it is technique. I mean I know she's nowhere near my 375 for 3 bench press. And I know I have some parts of my body that are extremely strong and some parts that are just average or well below average. Another example would be my calves are really strong and way above average and my quads are pretty much below average based on my squat.
My biceps and shoulders are another weak point for me. My chest isn't. I just didn't think that I would suck this bad in this lift that after like 4 years doing it I can't even come close to 230 or 235. Most of the time i'm at 190-200. So most of the time i'm about 20 lbs less than my PR. To get speed though you need some type of shoulder strength. I just can't believe that she got this up.
I mean yeah if we put her on bench press I bet she barely gets 185-195. So i'm still way above her on that at least. But damnit. How do you get that strong in this? I can't suck that bad in technique. I'm trying to lift it as fast as possible off the ground and I deadlift way more than she does(currently 605-615). So I don't get it.
And yeah does anyone have any idea what pro track athletes eat?? I need ratios, carbs, protein,, etc. Also why can't we ever hear from pro athletes on here? I don't get that. Seems shady. That they refuse to post here or shy away from it. What's the big deal? Talk to your fans. Instagram isn't a running forum. I mean why is that the only place they post?
Or if they post here it seems like they hide behind screen names. What are they so afraid about saying that's going to get them fired or something? I don't get that. Why can't they just be cooler and post somewhere other than instagram?
Or am I wrong about this? I've been following this forum for over 10 years and I don't think i've ever seen a verified famous track athlete post here in any of the threads? Is this true?
You're delusional and stupid. Why do you say you bench 375? You can't, you don't, you are broken. Until your only priority is getting healthy, you won't do anything. Talking again about nutrition? Standard best practice for sports nutrition is easy to search up, and won't help you because you're distracted by delusions.
Your argument is good to a point - but it also exposes you to the counter argument that standing next to a well conditioned athlete doesn't enable to you confidently conclude they aren't doping. If you say appearance isn't much of an indicator then a doper can look much like another fit athlete.
It isn't my view however. I think you need quite a parcel of indicators, quite apart from physical build, to form a view of likely (as distinct from possible - just about anyone now is possible) doping. However, in this era I wouldn't give many top athletes a pass. The chances of their doping are pretty high.
My view is that appearance is only an indicator if they portray obvious symptoms of steroid usage. Which is why I base my opinion on whether an athlete is doped on multiple factors, appearance being one of them, but not the key factor unless it is glaringly obvious.
What is glaringly obvious? For me, someone like South African Carina Horn. Her musculature is more like a heavy weight cross fitter or power lifter. But in addition, she also has a pronounced jaw and teeth. Then someone like the Russian Antonina Krivoshapka, who had a very masculine jawline and moustache. I have used these two examples as we know they have cheated. I could point to other women who have not been proven, but I want to be careful. But there is a retired American woman, still living, who at one point was the "fastest living woman in the world", and her voice had changed quite dramatically over the years, she sounded like a teenage boy going through puberty.
For some reason, some men seem to set the bar very low at what level of musculature they think a woman can achieve naturally. It seems to be from am amateur perspective, because they are casual athletes, or only work out themselves a few times a week, and because they cannot get bigger, oh no, a woman couldn't possibly either. They also seem to forget that, just like with men, some woman are naturally bigger, or stronger, or broader, or more gifted, than others. Which is why some women get into power or speed sports vs those that go into endurance sports.
As I said, I have met Lieke, more than once, and the woman I see on my TV and in images looks about 7 - 10 lbs heavier than she is in real life.
I understand your point of view but doping has changed our perception of what looks "normal" for a top athlete today. I also doubt that you can be a top sprinter today and not be on anything. When I see a woman athlete with pronounced upper body development it looks fairly obvious, because that is the hardest part of the body for a woman runner to produce significant muscle. We see that in most top female sprinters now.
Mrs Sprintgeezer LOVES spinach, she makes amazing spinach-onion omelettes…and she’s strong af. She literally makes Klaver look small, but that’s what you get from swimming.
Matt man, you are both right, and wrong. With your base numbers, you should be able to do this no problem for reps—so you are wrong, in that your technique CAN in fact be that bad. I can do it no problem, at 57 yrs/180, with most base numbers less than yours, especially bodyweight.
Get technique help from someone who knows, it is totally worth it. I learned from a bulgarian weightlifter, who I found through our throws coach. My olympic technique is admittedly nowhere near good, but holy crap did it make a difference.
Otoh you are right that some people just have some wicked natural strength. I have it in the deadlift, and in grip strength. Inexplicable. You can’t ever compete against that. In HS I had a friend who held an excellent flat iron cross without a cheater grip, after never having tried it, or done any gymnastics! Fvcking aszhole! We used to work hard on it, and it was a big deal when you got it, like your first dunk—and here’s this guy, he doesn’t even care, and does it no problem.
If it’s that important to you, just pay for some real coaching. With your base, you will be amazed at what you will achieve.
These quotes all come from people who have obviously never been to NED. There are so many chicks like her over there—tall, big, and strong. EVERYWHERE. Then if they do serious sports, that is what you get.
These quotes all come from people who have obviously never been to NED. There are so many chicks like her over there—tall, big, and strong. EVERYWHERE. Then if they do serious sports, that is what you get.
Go check it out, unless you are Jamin.
What effect do you think living down wind from a major airport would have on strength and speed? How important is cleaner air? Does breathing dirty air make a person stronger or weaker? Still debating this. Wondering what type of effect it could have.