How can East African dominate the 800m and the 5000m and leave the 1500m for the western?
The mile is an erroneous "tradition" spread among the western started in England and prolonged in USA (since USA is the traditional daughter of England).
The base idea is the following: who is good in the mile can contrôle everything else because he has the "speed".
Check the history of the event. EA i.e Kenya only has 6 golds in the history of the event and a I think 8 World titles, incidentally all won by Kenyans (this is off the top of my head, youre welcome to correct me)
(5 of which have been won by Kipyegon lol)
The 1500m has never been an EA thing for a weird reason.
We have better history with the 800m and the longer distances.
East Africa dominated European athletes in the 1500m during the EPO era, only they in turn were largely dominated by two North Africans.
If all East African's are dopers than than that should apply to all profesional runners. How do you know with his big improvement that Kerr isnt doping?
Why?
Are Arop, Nuguse, and Athing Mu doping?
This post was edited 12 minutes after it was posted.
We are witnessing great performance coming from non East Africans especially at the mile distance look at Kerr beating Farah record with Ease and with no shady track record within the next 5 years the landscape will change hugely
Check the history of the event. EA i.e Kenya only has 6 golds in the history of the event and a I think 8 World titles, incidentally all won by Kenyans (this is off the top of my head, youre welcome to correct me)
(5 of which have been won by Kipyegon lol)
The 1500m has never been an EA thing for a weird reason.
We have better history with the 800m and the longer distances.
East Africa dominated European athletes in the 1500m during the EPO era, only they in turn were largely dominated by two North Africans.
Ah, senility! If everyone were to reason like you, I'd be typing this in the language of the Roman Empire, not English.
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
E. African distance running is directed by the agents. They move the top athletes to the events where they can make the most money (they meaning the agents). The money has shifted from the track to the roads since the marathon boom of the early 2000s. Big half marathons like Valencia and RAK are paying $28-30k for first place and will also pay appearance fees and there are plenty of halfs paying $10-15k for first plus appearance fees. So, you can have runners doing 2-3 marathons and 3-4 halfs a year. That pulls in a lot more money than a couple of diamond league meets over the summer.
East Africa dominated European athletes in the 1500m during the EPO era, only they in turn were largely dominated by two North Africans.
This is false unless you are now claiming Spain is a part of East Africa. The most successful countries were North African (Moroccan/Algerian led by El Guerrouj and Morceli) and Spanish. Kenya was no. 3 with Lagat, Ngeny (as standouts) and a bunch of athletes in the Abel Kipsang range (typically finishing 4th-6th).
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
East Africa dominated European athletes in the 1500m during the EPO era, only they in turn were largely dominated by two North Africans.
This is false unless you are now claiming Spain is a part of East Africa. The most successful countries were North African (Moroccan/Algerian led by El Guerrouj and Morceli) and Spanish. Kenya was no. 3 with Lagat, Ngeny (as standouts) and a bunch of athletes in the Abel Kipsang range (typically finishing 4th-6th).
African performances explode as soon as EPO comes on the market, they dominate for 30 years, then markedly decline as soon as they are properly tested for said drug.
Hmm, it's a tricky one.
Brits dominated throughout the blood doping era. Blood doping gets banned and the Brits fall off the face of the Earth.. Hmm, a real headscratcher there.
Brits dominated throughout the blood doping era. Blood doping gets banned and the Brits fall off the face of the Earth.. Hmm, a real headscratcher there.
Thank you.
Take me back to a time when the British and their initial colonies (America being the first) were not [genocidal] cheats; cheats, until they are discovered, and they move the goalposts. The senile, bitter, and obsessed clown that is Covetts (whatever he goes by) just cannot fathom a world in which everyone starts off on an almost equal footing.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
M800: -3 of top 5 born in East Africa (Arop fled Sudan as a toddler with his family and represents Canada)
M1500: -#5 and #6 ranked are Kenyan, #2-ranked Nuguse is first generation American to Ethiopian parents
M3KSt: -6 of top 7 are East Africans
M5000: -6 of the top 7 are East Africans after removing the provisionally suspended Mo Katir
M10000: -Top 8 are East African
M10K/HM Road Running -Top 26 Born in East Africa (Lobalu soon eligible to represent Switzerland)
Marathon: -Top 22 Born in East Africa (Bashir Abdi represents Belgium)
It is of course great to see outstanding gains from Western/Oceanic countries in the 1500 most noticeably and also the 800. It more shows a resurgence like in the 60s-80s (Ryun, Snell, H. Elliott, Coe, Cram, Ovett, P. Elliott, Scott, Spivey, Walker) than the end of dominance. And it's great the Norwegian method seems to be closing the gap (5K+) with athletes like Almgren and Jakob.
Don't you know that EPO only helps in the men's 1500m?
East African dominance is going to increase because the population is exploding and poverty is increasing.
In the west, the population is not increasing and all kids are on their mobile devices all day using the track and field App to increase mileage of their hands on the phone and doing 12 reps of their index finger on the swipe button to watch reels, using the fosbury flop to flop on the couch, exchanging texts with their friends in the baton exchange zone of their phone, hugging their pillow instead of hugging the inside lane, kick back and relax instead of kicking for the finish line, having a negative attitude towards running instead of having a negative split, testing positive for fentanyl instead of having a positive split, spiking their drinks instead of putting of running spikes, lying on their back instead of running fast on the back straight, ................
Brits dominated throughout the blood doping era. Blood doping gets banned and the Brits fall off the face of the Earth.. Hmm, a real headscratcher there.
Thank you.
Take me back to a time when the British and their initial colonies (America being the first) were not [genocidal] cheats; cheats, until they are discovered, and they move the goalposts. The senile, bitter, and obsessed clown that is Covetts (whatever he goes by) just cannot fathom a world in which everyone starts off on an almost equal footing.
Americans are known for their Honesty, That is why The USA has The Global World Currency because Other World LLeaders always saw American Leaders as Squeeky Clean, Extremely Honest and Doing what is the Right Thing To do even if it personally hurt them.
African performances explode as soon as EPO comes on the market, they dominate for 30 years, then markedly decline as soon as they are properly tested for said drug.
Hmm, it's a tricky one.
Coevett never gets tired of telling lies.
In fact the opposite is true. Kenya's performance during the Olympics was poor during the EPO era and exploded immediately after a test for EPO was formulated.
African performances explode as soon as EPO comes on the market, they dominate for 30 years, then markedly decline as soon as they are properly tested for said drug.
Hmm, it's a tricky one.
More evidence of Coevetts lies that Kenya dominated the EPO era and declined after EPO testing started. If you look at the World Championships, you will see that the opposite is true.
More evidence of Coevetts lies that Kenya dominated the EPO era and declined after EPO testing started. If you look at the World Championships, you will see that the opposite is true.
1995 WC: 2 Gold
1997 WC: 3
1999 WC: 1
2001 WC: 3
2003 WC: 2
2005 WC: 1
EPO Testing starts
2007 WC: 5
2009 WC: 4
2011 WC: 7
2013 WC: 5
2015 WC: 7
2017 WC: 5
Thanks for those stats.
Now lets wait for Coevett's reply.
- ignore women-
- focus on just men's 1500m
- Kiprop was positive
- Kenyas population has increased (!!)
and so on
What he NEVER would do: just agreeing that his statement was not correct. Because he is not interested in the truth on those subjects (many many examples for this over the years).
We are witnessing great performance coming from non East Africans especially at the mile distance look at Kerr beating Farah record with Ease and with no shady track record within the next 5 years the landscape will change hugely
Props to Thoughtsleader and Joplas and others for bringing real data to the discussion.
But aren't athletes like Kerr and Wightman just picking up where Coe, Ovett, and Cram, not to mention Moorcroft, left GBR 30 years ago? Kerr may have beaten Farah's 2-mile indoor world record, but it's 2-miles, indoors. Both Kerr and Wightman are still behind Farah's fastest 1500m times -- an event that Farah wasn't even training for.
The performances of these 1980's era GBR athletes in these middle distance events have always remained competitive -- it is the non-Africans of the 1990s and later, who stagnated or started going backwards and dissappeared from the track. (About the time blood doping became banned and testing for steroids ramped up. Hmmm, there's a head scratcher for Coevett.)
And doesn't at least part of today's credit go to the new shoes?
With respect to East African dominance, if you pick all the track events from 800m to the 10000m, all of the road events from 5K to the marathon, and World Cross-Country, these middle distance events like the 800m/1500m/mile were the events were the East African dominance was the least. If the non-Africans had managed to equal the 1980s performances, they would have remained competitive with the East Africans (but not El G, who was in his own league).
Someone above said Kenya as a country has dominated the world since 1965, but there is no doubt in World Cross-Country, since 1981, that the East African countries of Kenya and Ethiopia brought a depth of top-talent unmatched in the world (who were practicing blood doping which was still legal) -- a decade before EPO hit the sports world of cycling.
One factor rarely acknowledged, often drowned out by louder discussions of the impact of the ABP-rollout, were the changes in the format of track, e.g. changing from Golden League to Diamond League, part of a larger trend where the money on the track dried up. If 10 athletes go sub-12:50, but only the first three are paid, soon you will only have three athletes on the track. This caused many of the best potential East African track athletes to skip the track and go straight to the roads, where they began to demolish the records previously set by aging track athletes at the tail end of their careers.
Another popular echo is that the East African dopers are finally being tested and caught. Sure some fast ones and many slow ones are getting caught. Education will improve that. But increased testing, and putting "high risk" countries into Category A, also creates another barrier to entry for many athletes where there is a definite depth of top talent, and little money to fund anti-doping compared to other nations with fewer top-talented athletes. This will impact the quantity, but not so much the quality, of the East African performances.
So congratulations to the non-African athletes stepping up, like the GBR athletes, and also athletes like Ingebrigtsen and Fischer -- good for them -- but it is rather optimistic to say that this is the beginning of the end of East African dominance.
(Sorry to have neglected the woman, but it appears that there is no such non-African trend, but quite the reverse, as East African women are increasing in both quantity and quality.)
Wilfred Bungei was the dominant 800m runner on the European circuit, winning a significant number of the races and always winning the overally title.
Then in championships, some European like Andre Bucher would appear out of nowhere and beat Bungei. The Russian Youry Borzakovsky would rarely compete in the European circuit then out of nowhere would come to a championship and win.
Finally a test for EPO went live and Bungei was finally able to win a championship
You could have had the best EPO test in the world and it wouldn't have mattered because Kenya only started any meaningful out of competition testing a few years ago.
Hence the countless busts we've seen.
African athletes were almost completely protected by Lamine Diack until he was replaced as president of the IAAF.
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