I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. I’ve never heard of an athlete at Hobbs’ level training like this. I know some guys like Brazier may only do 30 mpw and focus on speed. But I’ve never heard of someone running 75-90 per week without at least a 10 mile run, instead doubling every day.
I’m actually curious if this style could work for hobbyjoggers like myself. I think it’s a lot easier to find time for two short runs - before work and after work - than trying to block out 70-90 min sessions a few times a week. Plus, coming off the couch with little fitness you can get all the runs in without having to work up to handling 10+ mile long runs.
What? This was how I trained for years, especially after college. 80 mile weeks, 12 on Sunday, 8 on Friday.
I'm not doubting his coaching, I'm from Michigan so I know who Ron Warhurst is and obviously the training is working. I'm just wondering why he is bonking on runs that take less than an hour.
Kessler has a bright future in the sport. He's much more than a "cartoon hero."
He talked about "bonking" on long runs. This suggests that Hobbs is going too hard on easy days and/or long runs. Even young runners need recovery days. You can't beat yourself up every day. Injury and burn out follow.
Not sure he goes too hard. When I was a 1500 runner in my early 20s, I often was pretty tired from faster stuff. Used to run 7-8/5 doubles then and progressed quite well (officially only had a 2:00 PR for 800, but ran low 3:50s and mid 8:1xs).
Didn't he say in the interview that he does 10-13 mile runs occasionally...something like every 2 to 4 weeks?
Listened again. He said he's done a few 10-12 mile runs, depending on how it fits in the schedule, but it's not party of a "typical training week plan"
I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. I’ve never heard of an athlete at Hobbs’ level training like this. I know some guys like Brazier may only do 30 mpw and focus on speed. But I’ve never heard of someone running 75-90 per week without at least a 10 mile run, instead doubling every day.
I’m actually curious if this style could work for hobbyjoggers like myself. I think it’s a lot easier to find time for two short runs - before work and after work - than trying to block out 70-90 min sessions a few times a week. Plus, coming off the couch with little fitness you can get all the runs in without having to work up to handling 10+ mile long runs.
I’ve been doing this for a couple decades. You think my family wants me to vanish for 90 minutes in the evening when they want to have dinner? And my workday starts at 5:15am, so I’m not doing a 90-minute run at 3:00am (the fatigue would be totally counterproductive).
doubles every day are a necessity if I want to get in any decent mileage.
I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. I’ve never heard of an athlete at Hobbs’ level training like this. I know some guys like Brazier may only do 30 mpw and focus on speed. But I’ve never heard of someone running 75-90 per week without at least a 10 mile run, instead doubling every day.
I’m actually curious if this style could work for hobbyjoggers like myself. I think it’s a lot easier to find time for two short runs - before work and after work - than trying to block out 70-90 min sessions a few times a week. Plus, coming off the couch with little fitness you can get all the runs in without having to work up to handling 10+ mile long runs.
I’ve been doing this for a couple decades. You think my family wants me to vanish for 90 minutes in the evening when they want to have dinner? And my workday starts at 5:15am, so I’m not doing a 90-minute run at 3:00am (the fatigue would be totally counterproductive).
doubles every day are a necessity if I want to get in any decent mileage.
Good for you man. That’s awesome. I don’t really see the point in ever doing a long run, unless one is training for a marathon or semi-elite. 4/8 or 5/10 doubles basically every day should work fine. Maybe a 12-15 mile single run on the weekend, but it’s not necessary for most runners. Maximize the doubles first.
I'm not doubting his coaching, I'm from Michigan so I know who Ron Warhurst is and obviously the training is working. I'm just wondering why he is bonking on runs that take less than an hour.
Because you don’t just bonk from the run itself. You can also bonk if you haven’t been fueling sufficiently the rest of the day. I regularly bring a gel with me on runs as short as an hour if I haven’t been eating well that day, for whatever reason. A quality run is more important than running in a depleted state.
I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. I’ve never heard of an athlete at Hobbs’ level training like this. I know some guys like Brazier may only do 30 mpw and focus on speed. But I’ve never heard of someone running 75-90 per week without at least a 10 mile run, instead doubling every day.
I’m actually curious if this style could work for hobbyjoggers like myself. I think it’s a lot easier to find time for two short runs - before work and after work - than trying to block out 70-90 min sessions a few times a week. Plus, coming off the couch with little fitness you can get all the runs in without having to work up to handling 10+ mile long runs.
What? This was how I trained for years, especially after college. 80 mile weeks, 12 on Sunday, 8 on Friday.
But Hobbs is saying he no longer includes a long run. His longest continuous run is 7 miles. You ran 12.
I’m surprised this isn’t getting more attention. I’ve never heard of an athlete at Hobbs’ level training like this. I know some guys like Brazier may only do 30 mpw and focus on speed. But I’ve never heard of someone running 75-90 per week without at least a 10 mile run, instead doubling every day.
I’m actually curious if this style could work for hobbyjoggers like myself. I think it’s a lot easier to find time for two short runs - before work and after work - than trying to block out 70-90 min sessions a few times a week. Plus, coming off the couch with little fitness you can get all the runs in without having to work up to handling 10+ mile long runs.
I’ve been doing this for a couple decades. You think my family wants me to vanish for 90 minutes in the evening when they want to have dinner? And my workday starts at 5:15am, so I’m not doing a 90-minute run at 3:00am (the fatigue would be totally counterproductive).
doubles every day are a necessity if I want to get in any decent mileage.
Doing what for a couple of decades? Training? Racing? Are you a professional runner? I'm thinking you're a hobby jogger with a job and family per your post. If this is true, then yes, you need to run twice a day to achieve your weekly mileage goals. I believe this thread is regarding elite pro runners who don't have 9-5 jobs and or families to worry about.
Ordinarily I'd agree with this post, but one is a 5k/10k guy and the other is an 800/1500/3k guy. Sure there is a bunch of crossover on the easy to moderate intensity stuff, but Flanagan and Kessler do very different specific work. From 30,000' the training looks the same, but it's super tailor to each athlete daily.
Yeah, I was more interested in the speed dev stuff and if their quality sessions are always together. Like I get Ks/medium to long reps at threshold, but if his runs are all below 7 miles does this include the workout sessions? With 1.5 warmup and cooldown, the max value that a single workout can have would be around 4 miles or just under 7k. That seems on the lower end of top athlete sessions. I get that he maybe does 7k in the morning + 7k in the afternoon, but looking at the Bakken Norweigan model, he shows an athlete with double threshold training fitting in 10km in both sessions. I just don't know how one would arrange the 3-5 workouts within the week effectively while still balancing the speed dev and lifting.
Watch the interview to understand what he said, before spreading misinformation about what he didn't say.
1. He said he "wanted to increase my volume in training a little bit more."
2. He said he "added some other things like speed development and weights and stuff."
3. He said he "is doubling every day and generally doesn't run more than 50 minutes,"
4. He cut out the long run.
5. During a typical week, "The longest I go is 7 miles."
He said that previously he got tired on "regular" runs of 8-10 miles. He said he felt like he was bonking. He said that "the energy saved from that has been reallocated to either more mileage or more quality work."
6. He says that he doubles every day, and takes one day off a week. Hence he is usually running 50 minutes AM and PM on the easy days.
Watch the Letsrun video. Don't spout misinformation until you do.
Yeah, I was more interested in the speed dev stuff and if their quality sessions are always together. Like I get Ks/medium to long reps at threshold, but if his runs are all below 7 miles does this include the workout sessions? With 1.5 warmup and cooldown, the max value that a single workout can have would be around 4 miles or just under 7k. That seems on the lower end of top athlete sessions. I get that he maybe does 7k in the morning + 7k in the afternoon, but looking at the Bakken Norweigan model, he shows an athlete with double threshold training fitting in 10km in both sessions. I just don't know how one would arrange the 3-5 workouts within the week effectively while still balancing the speed dev and lifting.
Watch the interview to understand what he said, before spreading misinformation about what he didn't say.
1. He said he "wanted to increase my volume in training a little bit more."
2. He said he "added some other things like speed development and weights and stuff."
3. He said he "is doubling every day and generally doesn't run more than 50 minutes,"
4. He cut out the long run.
5. During a typical week, "The longest I go is 7 miles."
He said that previously he got tired on "regular" runs of 8-10 miles. He said he felt like he was bonking. He said that "the energy saved from that has been reallocated to either more mileage or more quality work."
6. He says that he doubles every day, and takes one day off a week. Hence he is usually running 50 minutes AM and PM on the easy days.
Watch the Letsrun video. Don't spout misinformation until you do.
ig the title is a bit compressed. Not "all runs < 7 miles", but more like "all runs are planned to be < 7 miles". I'll stand by 6 doubles tho. If you are interested, here is what I am referring to when I "spread misinfo". I think you got confused, but I was just trying to image a typical session that would be less than 7 miles and the multiple quality sessions within a day is more than likely influenced by the recent trend. I could have missed whatever was said about fueling, but I think it is fair to not fully understand his emphasis on limiting running after 7 miles without hearing him speak on the matter at length.
I believe there is a fair amount of speed development stuff in there. They do some 100m, 150m, 200m, 150m, 100m speed stuff after easy runs. I get what you mean by looking at a true mile program. But if you’re interesting in looking at the fundamentals it’s better than nothing.
True speed development is around 40-80m all out.
Sounds like you're just saying they do strides... quite frankly I don't know any pros that regularly do strides after easy runs. Speed development and track session weekly are enough race pace stimulus Joe Rubio style. Or if you're Jakob, one hill session.
I believe there is a fair amount of speed development stuff in there. They do some 100m, 150m, 200m, 150m, 100m speed stuff after easy runs. I get what you mean by looking at a true mile program. But if you’re interesting in looking at the fundamentals it’s better than nothing.
True speed development is around 40-80m all out.
Sounds like you're just saying they do strides... quite frankly I don't know any pros that regularly do strides after easy runs. Speed development and track session weekly are enough race pace stimulus Joe Rubio style. Or if you're Jakob, one hill session.
I know a lot of pros that regularly do strides after easy runs.
Sorry, hard to believe you. Haven't seen it in any training plan ever published whether it's famous guys like lydiard, daniels, pfitz, hanson's, the random coaches here or IG influencer coaches. Never seen it recorded on strava or mentioned on any interview with a pro.
Strides as part of a dynamic warmup to prevent injury and simulate race day? I'll accept that. Strides after to promote neuromuscular development and maintain fast twitch? Not needed and waste of time. Don't know a single person who's ever said doing strides was a large factor in their improvement. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Sorry, hard to believe you. Haven't seen it in any training plan ever published whether it's famous guys like lydiard, daniels, pfitz, hanson's, the random coaches here or IG influencer coaches. Never seen it recorded on strava or mentioned on any interview with a pro.
Strides as part of a dynamic warmup to prevent injury and simulate race day? I'll accept that. Strides after to promote neuromuscular development and maintain fast twitch? Not needed and waste of time. Don't know a single person who's ever said doing strides was a large factor in their improvement. Feel free to prove me wrong.
I am assuming this is just a troll but I’ll bite.
OAC does strides regularly. Renato Canova talks extensively about uphill sprints. Not strides, but similar. Nick Willis has talked about doing strides. If you go on Strava and look at many top collegiate programs and/or pros, they do strides after easy runs regularly.
Sorry, hard to believe you. Haven't seen it in any training plan ever published whether it's famous guys like lydiard, daniels, pfitz, hanson's, the random coaches here or IG influencer coaches. Never seen it recorded on strava or mentioned on any interview with a pro.
Strides as part of a dynamic warmup to prevent injury and simulate race day? I'll accept that. Strides after to promote neuromuscular development and maintain fast twitch? Not needed and waste of time. Don't know a single person who's ever said doing strides was a large factor in their improvement. Feel free to prove me wrong.
I am assuming this is just a troll but I’ll bite.
OAC does strides regularly. Renato Canova talks extensively about uphill sprints. Not strides, but similar. Nick Willis has talked about doing strides. If you go on Strava and look at many top collegiate programs and/or pros, they do strides after easy runs regularly.
For many middle distance runners, their easy days are really just warmups to the strides that they do after their 4-7 mile jog. The jog is restorative, gets a little blood moving, build a touch of aerobic strength, blah blah... But running something like 5x100 or 4x150 or whatever, touching on race paces, is the real meat and stimulus of the day.
I’ve been doing this for a couple decades. You think my family wants me to vanish for 90 minutes in the evening when they want to have dinner? And my workday starts at 5:15am, so I’m not doing a 90-minute run at 3:00am (the fatigue would be totally counterproductive).
doubles every day are a necessity if I want to get in any decent mileage.
Doing what for a couple of decades? Training? Racing? Are you a professional runner? I'm thinking you're a hobby jogger with a job and family per your post. If this is true, then yes, you need to run twice a day to achieve your weekly mileage goals. I believe this thread is regarding elite pro runners who don't have 9-5 jobs and or families to worry about.
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