I was in Portland around the running scene when the failed Cain experiment went down. From my outside observation she was not ready maturity wise to handle being an elite athlete. She joined a group of hardened vets (Rowbury, Mosier, Rupp etc) that had a decade plus of pro running to develop the discipline and mindset to be globally competitive.
Mary did not earn her success like they did, she was supremely talented. Basically jumped the line to the front without learning the skills of how to be there along the way. From what I saw she was like every other 18 year old. Undisciplined, unorganized, and not ready to be a pro which is NORMAL at that age. Heck they were paying local grad students to run with her to make sure she did her training!
Everyone knows Alberto is crazy competitive and Mary could have trained with anyone in the world! At some point she and her parents need to take a little responsibility.
This would be the same as sending a high school kid to train with Kobe and them getting upset at the environment.
Everyone knows Alberto is crazy competitive and Mary could have trained with anyone in the world! At some point she and her parents need to take a little responsibility.
And the agent. Yes the Cain's need to take responsibility. Remember, this is a family that did not get along with the coach at the local HS who was a legend. She wanted nothing to do with the great HS team. Someone once told me her older sister had big problems on the team and the family felt it there was a big anti-Catholic conspiracy against them.
But you know who also needs to take some responsibility? The agent. I remember hearing Cain might go to Salazar and thinking to myself, "Should I call the parents up? They have no idea what that guy's reputation is like. They think he's some famous Catholic savior." But the agent just wants to get paid instead of saying, "Hey this is the most money and it's a great team but are we sure a 16-year old is ready for this?"
To the pereson who said the article had nothing on the merits of the case. I disagree. It said the following,
"In the motion, the attorneys argued Cain’s allegations are “demonstrably false, and even contradicted by her own testimony and public statements. Attorneys for Nike and Salazar also said her claims were barred because of a two-year statute of limitations."
If it was past the statue of limitations, they were f***ed
I was in Portland around the running scene when the failed Cain experiment went down. From my outside observation she was not ready maturity wise to handle being an elite athlete. She joined a group of hardened vets (Rowbury, Mosier, Rupp etc) that had a decade plus of pro running to develop the discipline and mindset to be globally competitive.
Mary did not earn her success like they did, she was supremely talented. Basically jumped the line to the front without learning the skills of how to be there along the way. From what I saw she was like every other 18 year old. Undisciplined, unorganized, and not ready to be a pro which is NORMAL at that age. Heck they were paying local grad students to run with her to make sure she did her training!
Everyone knows Alberto is crazy competitive and Mary could have trained with anyone in the world! At some point she and her parents need to take a little responsibility.
This would be the same as sending a high school kid to train with Kobe and them getting upset at the environment.
A couple of things:
Alberto called the Cain family and recruited Cain for NOP when she was a hs junior.
It's quite normal for a corporation to settle a lawsuit early. Corps hate the negative pr associated with trial, don't like opening access for discovery and don't like running up legal fees. The Cain case was weak, so it settled at low end of the 2 to 20 million range.
The case was weak because Mary didn't bring up any negatives til she was asked to leave, and was on record being asked to be let back in.
I still find it odd that none of Cain’s NOP teammates openly supported her when her allegations came public. Meanwhile, half of Bowerman passionately stood up for Shelby when her ban was announced. Even Kara reached out to Amy Yoder when she revealed how big of an a-hole he was to her.
They did. Both Cam Levins and Ritz corroborated how Salazar treated her and apologized for not having reached out to her or stuck up for her back then.
Settlement was probably better for all parties involved. Presumably at least some of the plaintiff's causes of action would survive summary judgment. Thereafter, each side would need to devote considerable resources -- $$$$$$$$$$$$$ -- into further discovery and trial prep, and then trial. If Nike really wanted to make a statement and attempt to vindicate itself it could aggressively push for a trial and spend a ton of extra $$$ putting up its defense. However, some not so great stuff would inevitably come out at trial about some of its practices, which could hurt its bottom line. Likewise, the plaintiff could do the same, but the plaintiff doesn't have the deep pockets that Nike has. An unfavorable verdict at trial would come with huge expenses.
I still find it odd that none of Cain’s NOP teammates openly supported her when her allegations came public. Meanwhile, half of Bowerman passionately stood up for Shelby when her ban was announced. Even Kara reached out to Amy Yoder when she revealed how big of an a-hole he was to her.
They did. Both Cam Levins and Ritz corroborated how Salazar treated her and apologized for not having reached out to her or stuck up for her back then.
Who would downvote a purely factual statement like this?
I was in Portland around the running scene when the failed Cain experiment went down. From my outside observation she was not ready maturity wise to handle being an elite athlete. She joined a group of hardened vets (Rowbury, Mosier, Rupp etc) that had a decade plus of pro running to develop the discipline and mindset to be globally competitive.
Mary did not earn her success like they did, she was supremely talented. Basically jumped the line to the front without learning the skills of how to be there along the way. From what I saw she was like every other 18 year old. Undisciplined, unorganized, and not ready to be a pro which is NORMAL at that age. Heck they were paying local grad students to run with her to make sure she did her training!
Everyone knows Alberto is crazy competitive and Mary could have trained with anyone in the world! At some point she and her parents need to take a little responsibility.
This would be the same as sending a high school kid to train with Kobe and them getting upset at the environment.
A couple of things:
Alberto called the Cain family and recruited Cain for NOP when she was a hs junior.
It's quite normal for a corporation to settle a lawsuit early. Corps hate the negative pr associated with trial, don't like opening access for discovery and don't like running up legal fees. The Cain case was weak, so it settled at low end of the 2 to 20 million range.
The case was weak because Mary didn't bring up any negatives til she was asked to leave, and was on record being asked to be let back in.
This will probably get a lot of down votes, but I was surprised when she filed a $20 million lawsuit against NIKE and Salazar. Seemed like a huge cash grab. She was never going to get $20 million, but she may have gotten $1-2 million. We will never know. The settlement is sealed.
She had probably gotten a lot of $$$ in her contract when she signed with NIKE in high school for the pro career NIKE paid her for that didn't work out, due to Alberto's treatment of her and her changing body.
Alberto turned out to be emotionally and verbally abusive and she developed RED-S and emotional distress as a result. She had only been physically training with NOP in Portland for less than a year when she left and returned to NY. In 2019, 4 weeks after NOP was shut down due to Salazar's 4 year doping ban, she had an article about her experience with NOP published in The NY Times, that went viral and help launch a national re-evaulation of the needs of girls and women in sports, which was definitely needed. This was a good thing.
In 2021, she filed her lawsuit for $20 million. She must have known or been told that she could probably get $1-2 million in a settlement. She seems to have a sense of entitlement.
Her parents also bear some responsibility for the decisions made and the unfortunate events that ensued, as does she after she became an adult.
After reading Kara's book and Winning At All Costs I think Nike is evil and nothing bad enough could happen to them at cesspool.
Gee, Kara Goucher has never come clean about that fact that she was seeing Dr. Brown even before she met Salazar and it was she that told Salazar to use Dr. Brown. But I'm sure we can trust Kara is telling the truth in a book designed to make a big profit for her and get her in the #metoo speaker circuit to take in even more money.
Gee, Kara Goucher has never come clean about that fact that she was seeing Dr. Brown even before she met Salazar and it was she that told Salazar to use Dr. Brown. But I'm sure we can trust Kara is telling the truth in a book designed to make a big profit for her and get her in the #metoo speaker circuit to take in even more money.
Our sport is so weird, it is always handled with kid gloves especially for the women (usually affluent). There are probably hundreds of 18 year old football players with far worse treatment in college but no one cares. We love the psycho coaches for that sport!
After reading Kara's book and Winning At All Costs I think Nike is evil and nothing bad enough could happen to them at cesspool.
Gee, Kara Goucher has never come clean about that fact that she was seeing Dr. Brown even before she met Salazar and it was she that told Salazar to use Dr. Brown. But I'm sure we can trust Kara is telling the truth in a book designed to make a big profit for her and get her in the #metoo speaker circuit to take in even more money.
Before Dr. Brown was sus by all accounts he was a stand-up guy with a good reputation. All kinds of people went to see him. At some point he went over to the dark side, tainting anyone who ever went to see him before he did the dirty.
You do realize that Mary Cain already lost the first of her 3 claims against Nike and Salazar earlier this year in pre-trials, right? Mary Cain lost this and likely only got a small pittance to get her to go away and focus on Atalanta NYC
Where is that coming from (that she lost one of her 3 claims)? The other thread is titled
"Alberto Salazar Wins Dismissal of Mary Cain's 4th Claim in Cain's Lawsuit, 3 Claims Left For Trial in Jan. 2024"
I was in Portland around the running scene when the failed Cain experiment went down. From my outside observation she was not ready maturity wise to handle being an elite athlete. She joined a group of hardened vets (Rowbury, Mosier, Rupp etc) that had a decade plus of pro running to develop the discipline and mindset to be globally competitive.
Mary did not earn her success like they did, she was supremely talented. Basically jumped the line to the front without learning the skills of how to be there along the way. From what I saw she was like every other 18 year old. Undisciplined, unorganized, and not ready to be a pro which is NORMAL at that age. Heck they were paying local grad students to run with her to make sure she did her training!
Everyone knows Alberto is crazy competitive and Mary could have trained with anyone in the world! At some point she and her parents need to take a little responsibility.
This would be the same as sending a high school kid to train with Kobe and them getting upset at the environment.
This is a great post, and IMO wholly believable. It is quite possible for an exceptional athlete to be very far along in some ways (ability) before they are ready for professional training (maturity, etc).
In those situations, I imagine it is tough for the athlete in their family as people are all too eager to get the talent developed (professionally and away from home) before an athlete is actually ready. When the athlete is advanced enough in their ability, it is quite arguable that going to any collegiate program may not be advisable. So, imo, based on situations like this, I think people need to give the benefit of the doubt to young athletes (and their families and support systems) who elect to stay home until they are ready in every respect. Urging them to leave their families to go pro is not helpful.
Extremely cardio-talented, skinny adolescent with terrible biomechanics signs up with domineering coach with terrible people skills. Adolescent then develops perfectly normal "womanly" body not compatible with elite track racing. Coach lacking people skills responds predictably.
I was in Portland around the running scene when the failed Cain experiment went down. From my outside observation she was not ready maturity wise to handle being an elite athlete. She joined a group of hardened vets (Rowbury, Mosier, Rupp etc) that had a decade plus of pro running to develop the discipline and mindset to be globally competitive.
Mary did not earn her success like they did, she was supremely talented. Basically jumped the line to the front without learning the skills of how to be there along the way. From what I saw she was like every other 18 year old. Undisciplined, unorganized, and not ready to be a pro which is NORMAL at that age. Heck they were paying local grad students to run with her to make sure she did her training!
Everyone knows Alberto is crazy competitive and Mary could have trained with anyone in the world! At some point she and her parents need to take a little responsibility.
This would be the same as sending a high school kid to train with Kobe and them getting upset at the environment.
This is a great post, and IMO wholly believable. It is quite possible for an exceptional athlete to be very far along in some ways (ability) before they are ready for professional training (maturity, etc).
In those situations, I imagine it is tough for the athlete in their family as people are all too eager to get the talent developed (professionally and away from home) before an athlete is actually ready. When the athlete is advanced enough in their ability, it is quite arguable that going to any collegiate program may not be advisable. So, imo, based on situations like this, I think people need to give the benefit of the doubt to young athletes (and their families and support systems) who elect to stay home until they are ready in every respect. Urging them to leave their families to go pro is not helpful.
+1,000,000
I think A LOT of the Salazar/NOP drama has to deal with a lack of professionalism and maturity from all parties. Salazar is not what you might call a "normal chill dude" and we all know that. Many, many high level runners are also socially/mentally stunted in a weird way. They live a sort of frat life in college, go join a pro tram where that continues, they never work a "real" job until it's necessary. For what it's worth, I'm not trying to discount the rigor and dedication of pro running. The result of this is late 20-something year olds who aren't much more mature than a high schooler.
I think the whole thing is a sh!t show and Salazar is definitely the worst of the whole bunch, but it's hard to trust a word from Kara or Mary or Rupp or Mo as well.
This is a great post, and IMO wholly believable. It is quite possible for an exceptional athlete to be very far along in some ways (ability) before they are ready for professional training (maturity, etc).
In those situations, I imagine it is tough for the athlete in their family as people are all too eager to get the talent developed (professionally and away from home) before an athlete is actually ready. When the athlete is advanced enough in their ability, it is quite arguable that going to any collegiate program may not be advisable. So, imo, based on situations like this, I think people need to give the benefit of the doubt to young athletes (and their families and support systems) who elect to stay home until they are ready in every respect. Urging them to leave their families to go pro is not helpful.
+1,000,000
I think A LOT of the Salazar/NOP drama has to deal with a lack of professionalism and maturity from all parties. Salazar is not what you might call a "normal chill dude" and we all know that. Many, many high level runners are also socially/mentally stunted in a weird way. They live a sort of frat life in college, go join a pro tram where that continues, they never work a "real" job until it's necessary. For what it's worth, I'm not trying to discount the rigor and dedication of pro running. The result of this is late 20-something year olds who aren't much more mature than a high schooler.
I think the whole thing is a sh!t show and Salazar is definitely the worst of the whole bunch, but it's hard to trust a word from Kara or Mary or Rupp or Mo as well.
Kara is the most untrustworthy person you’ll ever meet. She a pathological liar.
It's often much less costly and time consuming to just pay a small extortion fee in a lawsuit instead of going through the whole trial
Evidently the claims were neither demonstrably false enough for a summary of judgment nor past the statute of limitations, or there would never have been a "whole trial".
Whether she got $2 million or $18 million is the more interesting question - probably something in between or they wouldn't have come to an agreement.
I disagree that she got anywhere close to $2 million. I think it's possible she got nothing
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