Coaches who took their team from obscurity to nationals, how did you do it?

My mistake, my 2017 team was divided / 2018 was solid

Not huge, but not insignificant either. Larger in West Africa than in East Africa athletics giants but yeah maybe write your elders and they can wave BYU scholarships about in their door-knocking.

One suspects it is the LDS’ foundational racism that’s the barrier?

He did it at UCLA back before most of you were born in 1979. No foreigners either... just CA kids.

Phil Lundin did this at St. Olaf in Minnesota. St. Olaf was an average D3 team for decades, with some flashes in the pan. 5 years after he takes over, they win D3 NCAA XC.

The guy coached a 3:02 4x4 and an D3 XC NCAA winning team. The overlap? Leadership.

His athletes name their kids after him.

You need to know your physiology, etc., but what is harder and more unique is the ability to create a culture and a mindset that really shifts the paradigm and changes things from a sport to a self-actualization factory. Lundin had/has that quality.

Do you think Sean Brosnan would have taken UCLA to nationals this year if he still coached?

Don't care. This thread has nothing to do with that.

In the early to mid-2000’s Scott Simmons took two NAIA Teams from obscurity to National Titles. Minot State in 2002 and 2003. He then moved to Virginia Intermont and won the National Title with that team from 2004 to 2006. He also developed several mediocre runners to nationally dominate. Fernando Cabada was already a high school rock star he eventually set an American record under Simmons as a college senior. Also looking at past results he took plenty of guys such as Michael Couch and developed him into a 13:40
5000m runner and National Champion. He also did the same for Corey Duquette who
wound up developing into a 29:05 10,000m runner and National Champion in other events. However, he did not assist these guys academically and pretty much used them for their athletic abilities versus guiding them for future success in life. I know based on resumes Crouch completed his degree not sure if the others ever did.

Mentality > Physicality

Think of men like John McDonald who began the Arkansas dynasty. Sure, he began with Irish runners and expanded it to worldwide talent as any successful D1 should do but he also took Americans, many relatively obscure and turned them into race horses.

I know. I ran against them at Texas and while I had a successful college career, I got to know and became friends with some of them and we talked about training and their 7 mile tempo runs when "lactate threshold" training was just a PHD concept.

It begins with the man at the wheel who believes with all his heart and loves the sport and is willing to learn, to find talent and stay on top of them and keep them motivated to train hard as a unit. Much like elite military units for which I also have some knowledge.

The secret is that there is no secret...

who did nau recruit from guatemala? i hope you don't mean grijalva who was raised in the us, went to school in california, and can barely speak spanish

I watched two college coaches turn around programs at Cal State Fullerton and UC Irvine in the early seventies. At Cal State Fullerton, Coach Jim Schultz attracted Southern California kids Covert, Tuttle, White (from the HS he coached previously) and others that were under the radar of the big programs. In the blink of an eye they went from obscurity to D2 national champions. Unfortunately, the student body at CSUF voted to drop all funding for the program a couple of years later. The second program was after the decline of CSUF. Coach Len Miller took over the program at UCI. He also went after under recruited local talent from Southern California like John Konigh, Bob Tillman, Ed Ahlmeyer, Don Moses, Steve Scott (yes, Steve was under recruited.) Then he brought in a kid he coached in HS, Eric Hulst along with his rivals Ralph Serna and Brian Hunsacker. Like CSUF the team won two D2 titles.

Both teams were also noted for (1) running camps, (2) housing the team together, (3) favorable So. Calif weather and access to trails and hills (housing developments now,) (4) Lastly, both coaches held noteworthy workouts that former athletes talk about to this day.

Note to previous post: Both Cal State Fullerton and UC Irvine had the same horrendous funding problems. Before a coach attempts to take a program from obscurity to national rankings, they should investigate how funding works at the school. BTW - after funding was cut, Coach Schultz returned to the high school ranks where he was an assistant coach for several years. Coach Miller left UCI for Arizona State shortly after Steve Scott's college career ended.

Fernando Cabada runs his own coaching site and completed a Bachelors in Criminal Justice heard something about Law School not sure if he is going that route, he is also a top masters runner. Corey Duquette works for the DoD and has completed a Bachelors of Science and multiple Masters Degrees, based on some research I believe he is PhD candidate right now. He doesn't run anymore but looks like he does some Vegas Poker Tournaments. Not sure what Simmons aim was on athletes and a ademics but it looks like his athletes complete what they start they just might have had different focus and maturity levels as college athletes.

The correct answer is Art Siemers

Look at D2 Colorado School of Mines 2005-2011 Obscurity to National Podium.

and then D1 CSU 2010 on. Obscurity to Nationals

I think there is a religious exception that someone can use to attend BYU as a religious non-Mormon. Provo is not Salt Lake City though - someone not of the faith wouldn't fit in well. That might not concern someone desperate for a scholarship. However, someone fast enough for BYU can probably get an offer elsewhere. Thus, I think the BYU athletic administration just doesn't try on the principle that people outside the faith would have a bad time in Provo - there isn't a lot of opportunity there for people not of the faith. Other considerations like you mention from the greater school administration/church administration may play a bit of a role, but I don't think they'd drive official policy today.

It’s all about recruiting

The Moore sisters and Kang Nyoak are from Australia as well. A couple other women on the team were from NZ & Australia a few years back. My main point really was that NAU doesn't rely heavily on "imports" for recruitment and the teams' success

I think it is a pretty accurate description. It isn’t about not coaching the rest. It is realizing 10% will do their morning runs no matter what. They are driven to be the best. The other 80% will do the morning runs if they have a team mate to get them out the door. The bottom 10% will have some excuse. Good coaches have systems to get that 80% to do the work and prevent the bottom 10% from dragging them down.

The answer is simple:

1. Scholarships. You need them. If you look at the top XC teams, a majority of their scholarships are in distance, or they have something that attracts top talent along with generous financial aid (i.e., Harvard). Very few teams are doing it without substantial scholarship. Virtually every no-name school (Cal Baptist, Furman, etc.) is getting there by sinking all their scholarships in.

1a. Talent and Recruiting. This goes hand in hand with #1, but the more talent you collect, the higher your chances. Recruiting your butt off and getting #s. Or in some cases, foreign talent.

2. Some loophole. Every school has their loophole that allows you to spread those scholarships further. Arkansas had the housing deal and the "states that touch Arkansas" can get in-state under McDonnel. Every school has there thing that turns 12.6 into "17" scholarships.

3. Support. From an AD, boosters, the school.

4. In charge. Either you are the man making the decisions or have the power to have a lot of control over $.

Only after these things do items like coaching come in.

A perfect example of this is the first NAU coach to start the dynasty, Eric Heins. Started a dynasty. Retires for a few years. Comes back to Louisville as an assistant. They are not good during those few years he's there. Is he a bad coach? Not recruiting? Of course not, he's a great coach. It's just at Louisville, he's not the head coach, his scholarship numbers are limited, and so on. They aren't going to be good.