As far as "legal courses" go....well, people like to discredit anyone's PR nowadays if it doesn't show up on their World Athletics Profile. I believe times/performances need to be taken into context:
Following only World Athletics, that basically means none of you can count your PR from a course like CIM, Boston, Grandmas (or in my case Rock n' Rock San Diego) either then.
I never understand why people don't run legal certified courses in the first place. I was a lot slower but I always did my research on which race to run to get a legal PR.
Call me crazy, but I consider a course that is an Olympic Trials Qualifier eligible (i.e. CIM, Grandmas, Boston, San Diego Rock n' Roll) to be a "legal course" that I personally would count as a PR. It's not like this was some Revel race that was 3000' net downhill...
Back to Des: Sure, for an actual certified World Record (or in this case USATF Master's Record) you need a World Athletics Cert course. Which Boston is not. Sure, she was "aided" in her time of 2:22 because of the big tailwind. But, if she had supershoes on that special day it's not a stretch to imagine that her time possibly could have been 2:20 or faster....
Sarah Hall also ran a fast time as a Master's at 40 at Boston and that would also not count....hence why Des's Chicago marathon performance is the official record now. Des's half marathon PR is like 1:10.....obviously she was never cracking 2:20 without that tailwind at Boston (and the possible addition of supershoes)....this is obvious....
I'm not sure what the issue is here, but the OP seems to lack the most basic reading comprehension/logic and doesn't understand what the word "shade" means....
The issue is that you're interacting with persons on a message board who use the cover of anonymity to engage in trollish behaviors and forum moderation that seems uninterested in policies that would discourage such behavior.
In short, it's nothing like "a conversation you'd have with your (identifiable, hence accountable) buddies on a group run".
Yeah Desi had a monster tailwind at Boston that most thought was worth 2-3 minutes. You are not entirely objective though because you are a 2:18:24 marathoner on a legal course and a 2:16:52 runner on a not legal course. Of course your non legal course was probably not 2-3 minutes fast due to a monster tailwind like Desi had. No doubt you would have run 2-3 minutes faster in the super shoes. I certainly never questioned that.
I'm not "entirely objective"?!
I said: if you don't want to count my marathon PR from San Diego Rock N Roll 2011 (not an World Athletics cert course but certainly an Olympic Trials qualifying course and OTQ performance) then you also can't count anyone's PR on a course like CIM, Grandmas or Boston. How is that not objective and logical?
So yeah, I will say my Marathon PR is 2:16:52 (I also ran a legit 1:04 half PR for the record). It got me my 2nd OTQ qualifier. If a course is US Olympic Trials Qualifying legal then I'm going to count it as my PR. And Des can count Boston too of course...but all I'm saying is it is worth noting the massive tailwind that she (and everyone) had that special day. But it's also not like her half marathon PR was 1:07-1:08 or something...which would show true potential for a sub 2:20 at the time.
But back to Hansons: I'd also say Brian Sell would've been a 2:08 guy easy in today's supershoes.
I have no horse in this race. You do. You seem to want to defend Desi, and I have no attachments to her either way. You also seem to be attached to saying you ran 2:16, and I don’t really care, but you know that your legal personal best is 2:18. Anyway I am sure your self worth does not depend on this sort of thing. You could have run 2-3 minutes faster in the super shoes.
I'm not sure what the issue is here, but the OP seems to lack the most basic reading comprehension/logic and doesn't understand what the word "shade" means....
I have no horse in this race. You do. You seem to want to defend Desi, and I have no attachments to her either way. You also seem to be attached to saying you ran 2:16, and I don’t really care, but you know that your legal personal best is 2:18. Anyway I am sure your self worth does not depend on this sort of thing. You could have run 2-3 minutes faster in the super shoes.
Whether his ‘legal personal best’ is 2:16 or 2:18, I’m 99.99% sure it’s still much faster than your personal best (‘legal’ or otherwise).
I have no horse in this race. You do. You seem to want to defend Desi, and I have no attachments to her either way. You also seem to be attached to saying you ran 2:16, and I don’t really care, but you know that your legal personal best is 2:18. Anyway I am sure your self worth does not depend on this sort of thing. You could have run 2-3 minutes faster in the super shoes.
Whether his ‘legal personal best’ is 2:16 or 2:18, I’m 99.99% sure it’s still much faster than your personal best (‘legal’ or otherwise).
Hence your saltiness.
His pb is not faster than mine. But I consider that irrelevant.
Molly Seidel and her Olympic bronze medal say hello.
A quirk. Female Olympic Marathon often split 30K at 2:22:30 plus Marathon race pace. This keeps the 2:25 to 2:27:30 Marathoners in the ballgame. Have you ever allowed the first (3500 to 4000)m of 5000m race or 5K road race or 5K XC race to be split too slowly thus keeping inferior runners in the ballgame? Same thing.
Almost like it's incredibly rare to have any times within 1-2% of the world record in any global championship race 1500m or longer. Also not sure how referencing "2:25 to 2:27:30" marathoners is relevant in an example centered around Seidel given that she demonstrated ~2:20 form or perhaps even faster (given ideal race conditions a la Berlin) in winning that bronze medal.
I have no horse in this race. You do. You seem to want to defend Desi, and I have no attachments to her either way. You also seem to be attached to saying you ran 2:16, and I don’t really care, but you know that your legal personal best is 2:18. Anyway I am sure your self worth does not depend on this sort of thing. You could have run 2-3 minutes faster in the super shoes.
Whether his ‘legal personal best’ is 2:16 or 2:18, I’m 99.99% sure it’s still much faster than your personal best (‘legal’ or otherwise).
Hence your saltiness.
I will add that most of you are stupid, and this has NOTHING to do with whether you can run fast or not. Sage doesn’t appear to be stupid but he is clinging to a personal best on the roads which was set on a non legal course. I don’t make the rules and I do believe Safe was capable of 2:16 on a legal course, but he did not do it.
Des needs to work on her grammar first. Plus, why do I suspect she’s going to be hanging out for another decade? She can be put out to pasture as far as I’m concerned.
Des is great. *You* should most definitely go away, though. Or at least just STFU.
Des needs to work on her grammar first. Plus, why do I suspect she’s going to be hanging out for another decade? She can be put out to pasture as far as I’m concerned.
Des is great. *You* should most definitely go away, though. Or at least just STFU.
Obviously many of us disagree wit this. She was America’s sweetheart as an underdog. She won Boston in 2018 and has become unbearable.
And Ryan Hall would have run 1:58 that day in Boston with Super Shoes. It's weird when I look at Des Linden's marathon progression I don't see a multiple minute time improvement when she started wearing carbon shoes. She ran 2:25 in Houston in 2012, and 2:26 on the warm day in Rio which was really impressive in 2016, and that was in old shoes. Then she ran some more in the 2:26-2:29 range after getting carbon shoes around 2018-2020, but I can't tell when she first wore them. You'd think you would be able to tell based on her times if they make such a big difference.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Our cohort is a tough one to be in though...because I look back at my prime marathon years (circa 2011-2015) and think "if only those super shoes were out back then!"... Runners drop 2:18 like it's nothing now. These are runners that used to run 2:21 before!
Newflash, runners used to drop 2:18 like it was nothing during your "prime marathon years", you just weren't one of them. And who tf cares about 2:16 vs 2:18, one is a C- performance for a pro runner the other is a D+ performance, neither are getting you any major wins, money, or attention, both are totally irrelevant. Move on homie.
And Ryan Hall would have run 1:58 that day in Boston with Super Shoes. It's weird when I look at Des Linden's marathon progression I don't see a multiple minute time improvement when she started wearing carbon shoes. She ran 2:25 in Houston in 2012, and 2:26 on the warm day in Rio which was really impressive in 2016, and that was in old shoes. Then she ran some more in the 2:26-2:29 range after getting carbon shoes around 2018-2020, but I can't tell when she first wore them. You'd think you would be able to tell based on her times if they make such a big difference.
Can we agree that there are certain people that are not aware of the number of people that dislike them?
Any thread about Salazar or Rupp or Kara or Des will draw a great number of haters because these people are disliked by more than like them.
This comment reminds me of a few years back if you went by haters on the internet that Taylor Swift was the most disliked person on the planet. And look how that all turned out. But I think we can agree that the vocal minority online do not represent the vast majority of the public.
Our cohort is a tough one to be in though...because I look back at my prime marathon years (circa 2011-2015) and think "if only those super shoes were out back then!"... Runners drop 2:18 like it's nothing now. These are runners that used to run 2:21 before!
Newflash, runners used to drop 2:18 like it was nothing during your "prime marathon years", you just weren't one of them. And who tf cares about 2:16 vs 2:18, one is a C- performance for a pro runner the other is a D+ performance, neither are getting you any major wins, money, or attention, both are totally irrelevant. Move on homie.
By the number of anonymous posts you have pertaining to Sage, I would say you have an unhealthy obsession with his “irrelevant“ marathon times. I would suggest that it is you that needs to move on.
Brit here... I can not understand why so many of you hate the likes of Des Linden and Molly Seidel. From an outsider's point of view, they seem to be pretty great ambassadors for the sport.
Also, Des Linden is not desperately trying to remain relevant, she is relevant which is why this publication wanted to speak to her and subsequently why you're posting about it on here.
Did Des win Boston in super shoes when they weren’t readily available to all the Africans yet?
I believe she won because all of the top people dropped out. A lot of the WMM races have time bonus incentives, some of those people drop out when it becomes obvious they aren't going to make much money. And bad weather makes it more likely an individual person will drop out anyway. Des ran a more controlled race and finished.
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