I find the concept most letsrunners have of talent quite ridiculous. For many people here talent means "how fast could "x" athlete run 400m at 14y old". Of course natural speed is important but also the ability to run 120 miles per week without injury. If A athlete runs the same time for the 5k as B runner with less mileage it doesnt mean that if the A runner did the same mileage as B he would beat him. Every athlete has their own optimal workload and their best event. Jakob is the best middle distance athlete in the world, either you like it or not. Calling him less talented than anyone on the circuit being that all of them are profesional runners is simply delusional. Grow up
For real,
I run 100mpw and need to for my level of fitness. I have some friends who maybe peak at 50mpw and we're at a similar speed in races.
I'm not more talented than them for being able to sustain higher mileage and they're not more talented than me for doing the same speed on fewer miles.
This thread is actually debating which of them is more doped. That's "talent" in today's sport.
Its weird that you don't know more about doping considering how much you yak on about it. Its not like you can just do more drugs than the next guy and then you become better. I did a different sport (without drug testing) when I was younger, and while I was drug free I was beating several guys that confirmed to me that they were doing drugs. They had simply less talent than me (and most probable a low response on doping), and their training way way inferior than me. Other competitors was miles ahead of me, and would equally beat me even if I had loaded up on drugs. Talent and training has extremely much to say, even if someone uses drugs.
This black and white thought where you think you can judge who is doping or not, and the thought that someone is winning means they automatically is more drugged up just shows a lack of knowledge about the subject matter. I can guarantee you that I would never beat Kipchoge or Paavo Nurmi no matter how much doping I would do.
The more you know about it, the more nuanced it becomes. I think its important to have some knowledge about this as it supports the idea that you have to have a lot of randomized testing throughout the year and throughout the field. Its crazy that all Olympic athletes isn't required to give randomized, at least monthly, blood, urine and hair samples say the year leading into olympics (or just throughout their career).
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
I find the concept most letsrunners have of talent quite ridiculous. For many people here talent means "how fast could "x" athlete run 400m at 14y old". Of course natural speed is important but also the ability to run 120 miles per week without injury. If A athlete runs the same time for the 5k as B runner with less mileage it doesnt mean that if the A runner did the same mileage as B he would beat him. Every athlete has their own optimal workload and their best event. Jakob is the best middle distance athlete in the world, either you like it or not. Calling him less talented than anyone on the circuit being that all of them are profesional runners is simply delusional. Grow up
Yeah for decades here people equate talent with "how fast can you run a mile completely untrained", as if your first attempt at a distance has any correlation to your lifetime potential.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Can you ignore that Jakob is a lab experiment and how that played in his performances? Just look at his medical following. The day where he get a slight Under performance there is quick medical diagnostic.
Edit.
Take the example of Jacob Kiplimo.
In 2020 everything was showing that Kiplimo is the next world beater.
But since he was managed by a poor country, all his talent was lost.
There are ten of examples like this every year, but the haters like Coevett (and this forum is full of them) don't want to hear anything.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Can you ignore that Jakob is a lab experiment and how that played in his performances? Just look at his medical following. The day where he get a slight Under performance there is quick medical diagnostic.
Edit.
Take the example of Jacob Kiplimo.
In 2020 everything was showing that Kiplimo is the next world beater.
But since he was managed by a poor country, all his talent was lost.
There are ten of examples like this every year, but the haters like Coevett (and this forum is full of them) don't want to hear anything.
Having a team doctor is what every nation with enough funding and respect have, lol.
I find the concept most letsrunners have of talent quite ridiculous. For many people here talent means "how fast could "x" athlete run 400m at 14y old". Of course natural speed is important but also the ability to run 120 miles per week without injury. If A athlete runs the same time for the 5k as B runner with less mileage it doesnt mean that if the A runner did the same mileage as B he would beat him. Every athlete has their own optimal workload and their best event. Jakob is the best middle distance athlete in the world, either you like it or not. Calling him less talented than anyone on the circuit being that all of them are profesional runners is simply delusional. Grow up
For real,
I run 100mpw and need to for my level of fitness. I have some friends who maybe peak at 50mpw and we're at a similar speed in races.
I'm not more talented than them for being able to sustain higher mileage and they're not more talented than me for doing the same speed on fewer miles.
We each run what we can run.
I don't agree. I think they are likely more talented than you.
Can you ignore that Jakob is a lab experiment and how that played in his performances? Just look at his medical following. The day where he get a slight Under performance there is quick medical diagnostic.
Edit.
Take the example of Jacob Kiplimo.
In 2020 everything was showing that Kiplimo is the next world beater.
But since he was managed by a poor country, all his talent was lost.
There are ten of examples like this every year, but the haters like Coevett (and this forum is full of them) don't want to hear anything.
Having a team doctor is what every nation with enough funding and respect have, lol.
Yes, Yared is more talented than Jakob. It is the genetics. We forget that he is a descendant of Ethiopian immigrants, a country boiling over with talents from 800m to the marathon. When you get someone with that kind of background then add passion then western scientific approach to sports training, you have a one in a century athlete! Athing Mu falls in that category but her lack of passion/ interest is hindering her.
This thread is actually debating which of them is more doped. That's "talent" in today's sport.
Its weird that you don't know more about doping considering how much you yak on about it. Its not like you can just do more drugs than the next guy and then you become better. I did a different sport (without drug testing) when I was younger, and while I was drug free I was beating several guys that confirmed to me that they were doing drugs. They had simply less talent than me (and most probable a low response on doping), and their training way way inferior than me. Other competitors was miles ahead of me, and would equally beat me even if I had loaded up on drugs. Talent and training has extremely much to say, even if someone uses drugs.
This black and white thought where you think you can judge who is doping or not, and the thought that someone is winning means they automatically is more drugged up just shows a lack of knowledge about the subject matter. I can guarantee you that I would never beat Kipchoge or Paavo Nurmi no matter how much doping I would do.
The more you know about it, the more nuanced it becomes. I think its important to have some knowledge about this as it supports the idea that you have to have a lot of randomized testing throughout the year and throughout the field. Its crazy that all Olympic athletes isn't required to give randomized, at least monthly, blood, urine and hair samples say the year leading into olympics (or just throughout their career).
You can't see the wood for the trees. Doping doesn't mean that those with no talent will beat those who do have talent, but it does mean you will be better for the talent you have. We see the general effects of doping in the overall level of improvement in a sport that can't be attributed to talent, training and technique alone.
But the hardest thing for fans like you to accept is that if there is something that will give an athlete the edge they will take it - especially if the risk of being caught is minimal. That is why sport today is full of doping at the top. The stakes are high; the risks are low. But for many fans their dreams would be shattered to realise this is their sport now.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Can you ignore that Jakob is a lab experiment and how that played in his performances? Just look at his medical following. The day where he get a slight Under performance there is quick medical diagnostic.
Edit.
Take the example of Jacob Kiplimo.
In 2020 everything was showing that Kiplimo is the next world beater.
But since he was managed by a poor country, all his talent was lost.
There are ten of examples like this every year, but the haters like Coevett (and this forum is full of them) don't want to hear anything.
Kiplimo who has the Half Marathon World Record and won World XC this year? His talent hasn't been lost by any stretch. He just had an injury, which is something Jakob's brothers frequently have had under the same management in a rich country.
Kiplimo is also able to access a ton of resources through his Italian management company (Rosa), and one of his coaches is also Italian. He gets Lactate testing and all sorts of things that a Western athlete does as well. Injuries are part of the sport, and just because Jakob seems to be immune to them (though prone to sickness perhaps), doesn't mean that could be the case for everyone else.
This post was edited 20 seconds after it was posted.
Not in the 1500 - despite 3 failed attempts. His WC 1500 record is that of a loser. Like you.
Yeah, agreed his WC 1500 record sucks ASS!
Not winning a world championship title in his specialty distance in three attempts puts a significant asterisk over the claim he is one of the all-time greats. El G had 4 such titles, in addition to his Olympic gold and world records over his (and Jakob's) specialty distance - records that Jakob doesn't have.
Not winning a world championship title in his specialty distance in three attempts puts a significant asterisk over the claim he is one of the all-time greats. El G had 4 such titles, in addition to his Olympic gold and world records over his (and Jakob's) specialty distance - records that Jakob doesn't have.
Yes, Jakob has a lot of work to do to catch El Guerrouj as the greatest ever in the 1500/mile. Probably would surpass him if he wins another Olympic title in '24, 2 World Titles ('25 and '27) and breaks both records. Could surpass his overall resume I'd argue with less, as long as he knocks down the 3K/5K World Records.
Not winning a world championship title in his specialty distance in three attempts puts a significant asterisk over the claim he is one of the all-time greats. El G had 4 such titles, in addition to his Olympic gold and world records over his (and Jakob's) specialty distance - records that Jakob doesn't have.
Yes, Jakob has a lot of work to do to catch El Guerrouj as the greatest ever in the 1500/mile. Probably would surpass him if he wins another Olympic title in '24, 2 World Titles ('25 and '27) and breaks both records. Could surpass his overall resume I'd argue with less, as long as he knocks down the 3K/5K World Records.
The resume that counts as a 1500/miler is over that distance. It would be the same with trying to topple Rudisha from his throne - it would have to in respect of achievements over the 800.