There is a fun interview with Gert when he is at a diamond league - and gets asked about his training and he says something along the lines of … look at them (pointing at the mid distance runners), most of them have started doing the same stuff that we do. And that is something i am proud of.
He's referring to the fact that most people do some threshold in their warmup now, not 4 weekly threshold workouts.
It ain't new and it ain't revolutionary. My HS coach (late 80s) and college coach (~90) were Lydiard guys. Volume, 2x per day, often tempo AM (steady state in Lydiard vernacular), repeats afternoon. We NEVER hammered workouts. They were mostly tempo and longish repeats at around 5k-10k race pace. We did long runs every week. Consistency was key. I got faster every year for 8 years under those 2 coaches.
What is different about JI? He started early, has immense talent, focus, drive, and a dedicated coach training for the long term. Very few runners have all those things. I have spoken to some Olympians and their support structure is amazing and consistent over their whole life.
He also may have access to supplements and physical therapy that not everyone does that allow him to push hard consistently without getting injured. I could count on one hand the number of sports massages I got in college. JI probably has someone available every day. He likely has his blood tested regularly and gets appropriate supplements.
Exactly. A guy like Laros, who was just one second off of Jakobs 3:30 at the same age, trains very different under Tomasz Lewandowski. Not sure how Myers trains? Kerr, who's the world champion, never doubles according to himself, runs 60 mpw (?) with a big focus on speed and lifting. Wightman, also a world champion mind you, doesn't train like Jakob. Neither does Tim. It's a great system, but it doesn't fit all and doesn't seem to be the ''end of history'' for training theory.
Agree with what you are saying in general but, none of those other guys can win WC 5000's or set 2 mile WR's.
Agree, the system is of course much more optimal for longer distances, but for a distance like 1500 there's clearly other ways. Particularly interested in seeing what Laros will do in the 1500.
Sure, everyone can do it. They just need to start training like a pro at 8 years old with their two world class older brothers while being coached by their dad.
Nordas did none of these things. All you need is the right coach and doctor.
Agree with what you are saying in general but, none of those other guys can win WC 5000's or set 2 mile WR's.
Agree, the system is of course much more optimal for longer distances, but for a distance like 1500 there's clearly other ways. Particularly interested in seeing what Laros will do in the 1500.
Is it? How many of these guys have 5k that are better than their 1500m? Maybe that is just these guys 'best' distance. Maybe the training works out being better at the shorter distance than the 5k. Maybe they just didn't run 5ks when in good shape. Maybe those sharpening weeks (the ones we don't talk about) for the 5000m are suboptimal. Who the heck knows.
Remember Webb's training gave us a 1:43, 3:30,27:34(1 race) and from what I have seen I wouldn't call it threshold based. Lots of ways to attack running that work. The Norwegian approach is really solid..who knows if slightly more intensity (or less) would give marginally better results. At some point you have to have faith your program is good enough.
We will never know if Nguse trained like JI(and vice versa) how much either of their times would change.
No one has access to Jakobs actual training. People compiled a few workouts and made a bunch of guesses as to what Jakob might be doing but no one actually knows what a weekly or monthly schedule of training looks like for Jakob.
Very true. I am a high schooler who has done double thresholds throughout the summer usually 5-6 miles in volume per session. As a high schooler, these double threshold sessions are extremely sustainable and I am not wiped out at all by the time I finish both of them. Now imagine someone who has been doing double thresholds since he was like 10, obviously these aren't taxing for Jakob and are very very sustainable.
I know quite a few collegiate, amateur, and high school runners who try to train like Jakob but cannot sustain it without heavy fatigue or injury.
The issue I've observed is that they're undisciplined, and while they try to structure their weekly schedule like the Ingebrigtsen's, they always hit the workouts too fast and end up overworking themselves.
When has Jakob been injured? He's been extremely healthy for his whole career, with barely any injury hiccups--more often colds--usually in the base season.
Double thresholds is fine as a formula but it is key to Jakob's training system that they check their blood lactate frequently and adjust their workouts accordingly. In a video of Katir at the high altitude Spanish camp that the Ingebrigtsens also train at, he and his translator are trying to figure out how to use the lactate meter in cold weather and they don't really know exactly what to hit. The meter really differentiates Jakob's training from a lot of others doing "threshold" workouts without actual measures other than time and distance.
When has Jakob been injured? He's been extremely healthy for his whole career, with barely any injury hiccups--more often colds--usually in the base season.
Double thresholds is fine as a formula but it is key to Jakob's training system that they check their blood lactate frequently and adjust their workouts accordingly. In a video of Katir at the high altitude Spanish camp that the Ingebrigtsens also train at, he and his translator are trying to figure out how to use the lactate meter in cold weather and they don't really know exactly what to hit. The meter really differentiates Jakob's training from a lot of others doing "threshold" workouts without actual measures other than time and distance.
I never said Jakob was injured - I was talking about his brothers. I do think there is something to be said about Jakob getting sick at championships though ... Could it be a symptom of pushing the limit, or just bad luck ?
The training works for all three brothers. It works for Nordas. Why doesn’t everybody just do the same training?
There’s a learning curve with lactate testing & most coaches think *they* have the secret training insight. But I’d be fascinated to see some mid-tier college program hire someone with the Norwegian plan instead of making college kids run 6’ miles on easy days and 10-mile “tempos” at 5’ pace. I bet you they’d do well.