Update on 12/30/2025 - This thread was started in 2023. I've updated it to reflect the fact that non-African born men swept all 4 track distance golds at 2025 Worlds.
So after going 0-64, non African born men won the last 2 in 2022, 2 of 4 in 2023 and 4 of 4 in 2025.
It's the shoes . European distance runners have on average been heavier and less capable of a heavier work load which often caused injury ... not now . Also the energy return from the carbon plate is more beneficial the heavier you are . Simple physics really .
Its because other countries have taken up hard core doping in greater numbers than they were.If you cant beat em,join em.Better testing in africa,alleged self belief,and shoes have nothing to do with it.
Distance running has become more competitive, with athletes from various countries, including non-African nations, improving their training methods, coaching, and overall performance. This increased competition can lead to a more level playing field and more unpredictable outcomes in races.
I brought this topic up last Friday on our SC podcast and will do so again today in our regular year in podcast. It's certainly one of the bigger themes in the sport. What explains the crazy change?|
Is it there are so many Westerners now doing altitude training? Westerns are better responders to super shoes? We need something that makes sense.
I've also updated the thread title with the new stats.
After going 0-64, non African born men won the last 2 distance golds on the track at Worlds in 2022, 2 of 4 in 2023 and 4 of 4 in 2025.
Money is on the roads. Stricter testing - less chance to get caught doping racing twice a year.Very few opportunities to race 10k on the track, let alone 5.
Ethiopia and Kenya have prioritized the roads over the track because that is where the money is. Podiums of all the big marathons and half marathons are solidly E. African. Back in the days of Bekele and Geb, E. Africans would start on the track and move to the marathon after establishing themselves on the track. Now, they just go straight to the roads. This is not to say that the Ethiopians and Kenyans who are on the track are second rate. Kipyegon is the best ever at 15/5. But the talent pool is much more shallow on the track than ever before.
But for the rest of the world, the opposite is true. The track is still a priority and the marathon is for later in your career.
Lol. They prioritized the roads because there wasn’t any testing there. Kenya wasn’t even bothering to test road athletes. You can’t have a real conversation about why without first addressing the biggest reason. Doping.
This is a rare occasion where Roy is correct. The big road majors are where the money and prestige are at. Nobody gives a sh!t about track.
if you wanna dive a little deeper, you can attribute it to one man, Kipchoge. All of the best runners in Kenya and Ethiopia wanted to follow his footsteps and become a worldwide star athlete.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
US and Europeans are grinding altitude camps year round and are doing more threshold work. I think both Hocker/Jakob have been running since they were kids, I imagine this has helped them get ahead of the curve. Also, running in the US/NCAA/Euro circuit is better/more competitive than ever. We're so much deeper than ever before, there are like 25 dudes in the US that can run 3:32 or 13:10.
I'm not really sure what the history of training at altitude is in the US, but I imagine that if running becomes even remotely as technically advanced as cycling (fueling, training, altitude, recovery) it's over for athletes that are not getting the same support as the athletes in pro Nike/Adidas/etc. running groups (in the US/Europe)
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Multiple white guys running sub 3:30 and sub 12:50 is the outlier, not the Africans sucking. .Better testing and "smart " training doesn't explain it.. Occum's razor dictates thar the white runners are doing the same shi!te the peloton is on. Every climbing record is getting obliterated. We're talking EPO era records. Sound familiar? The difference is in cycling they can't use the Africans getting busted as the explination.
There's been some opportunities due to several factors. Obviously doping is prevalent to some Africans winning. Are they doping less or others doping more? The truth is that Africans don't take worlds/Olympics as seriously anymore--which also entails they compete cleaner for these events. You cant be doped up 365 days a year. They dope for when it will financially benefit them the most (prize money and contracts) and that is usually during the diamond league circuit and not the Olympics/worlds. Most people don't even realize this reality. They profit more financially from DL meets than worlds. However, an American such as Hocker would peak for the Olympics and notably would also benefit more financially in endorsement deals from Olympic gold than a random African runner would.
There's been some opportunities due to several factors. Obviously doping is prevalent to some Africans winning. Are they doping less or others doping more? The truth is that Africans don't take worlds/Olympics as seriously anymore--which also entails they compete cleaner for these events. You cant be doped up 365 days a year. They dope for when it will financially benefit them the most (prize money and contracts) and that is usually during the diamond league circuit and not the Olympics/worlds. Most people don't even realize this reality. They profit more financially from DL meets than worlds. However, an American such as Hocker would peak for the Olympics and notably would also benefit more financially in endorsement deals from Olympic gold than a random African runner would.
Yes, only Africans use PEDs . Nobody in the NFL NBA or Major league baseball would ever do such a thing and certainly not American sprinters or distance runners. And Europeans, no European athletes would even dream of using PEDs, especially not cyclists. 😂😂
There's been some opportunities due to several factors. Obviously doping is prevalent to some Africans winning. Are they doping less or others doping more? The truth is that Africans don't take worlds/Olympics as seriously anymore--which also entails they compete cleaner for these events. You cant be doped up 365 days a year. They dope for when it will financially benefit them the most (prize money and contracts) and that is usually during the diamond league circuit and not the Olympics/worlds. Most people don't even realize this reality. They profit more financially from DL meets than worlds. However, an American such as Hocker would peak for the Olympics and notably would also benefit more financially in endorsement deals from Olympic gold than a random African runner would.
Quite apparently there is more of an equal playing field now when it comes to doping, with the AIU focusing on Kenya and Ethiopia. Now almost everyone has to fear getting caught if doped to the gills. I don't think the non-Africans increased their doping, rather the Africans are getting constrained to micro-dosing as well. Same goes for countries with overly lenient NADOs - AIU has started to catch their dopers too (and WADA/WA/AIU may interfere if the NADO lets a doper off the hook).
Any focus on the road comes on top of that, but that isn't necessarily as new.
This is a rare occasion where Roy is correct. The big road majors are where the money and prestige are at. Nobody gives a sh!t about track.
if you wanna dive a little deeper, you can attribute it to one man, Kipchoge. All of the best runners in Kenya and Ethiopia wanted to follow his footsteps and become a worldwide star athlete.
There are few opportunities to race 10Ks and it’s only financially smart to be track-focused if you’re Japanese-based, or completely dominant at the 5,000 too . Otherwise there’re way more XC races, 10K-HM races on the roads. Western athletes have gotten better (specifically stronger with mileage, altitude and threshold) and I’d argue their natural speed and superior tactics lead them to beat African athletes on the margins in a championship/unpaced setting. It’s closer in a tactic-free 5,000s or even a win for the best Africans like Kejelcha. He even admitted he made a blunder in Tokyo to lose to Jimmy by going too early against his coach’s advice.
Lol. They prioritized the roads because there wasn’t any testing there. Kenya wasn’t even bothering to test road athletes. You can’t have a real conversation about why without first addressing the biggest reason. Doping.
This is a rare occasion where Roy is correct. The big road majors are where the money and prestige are at. Nobody gives a sh!t about track.
if you wanna dive a little deeper, you can attribute it to one man, Kipchoge. All of the best runners in Kenya and Ethiopia wanted to follow his footsteps and become a worldwide star athlete.
You and the rest like you do nothing but deflect. The main reasons are obvious. It’s the incremental increase in actual testing, and the improvements in the tests themselves. Period. There is little doubt that some elements within the powers that be are working on some way ($$$) to convince officials to again constantly look the other way at African/third world cheats, so things are likely to roller-coaster over the next few years. Certain elements see helping third world cheats as a way to put the rest of the world in its place, especially the West. Yes, politics runs deep in the sport. That’s why Russia is ‘out’ while a nation with far more cheats - Kenya - cruises along with no worries.