Pose Method of Training?

Seeing these Pose "Infomercials" every few weeks makes me chuckle. Constantly having Mr. Huffman comment things he has learned at the Level One of Pose U (whatever that level means) again brings forth a few smiles. The only good thing I have found coming forth from these posts are the studies being posted by individuals who are not awed by "salesmanship". I praise those of you who have taken the time to do legitimate searchs on the biomechanics and are willing to share them with others. The article by Tellez is a fine example of an individual who not only has gone out of his way to understand the events he coaches, but is willing to share his findings and conclusions with others. Anectodal comments are just that. There is no scientific basis to them. Mr. Huffman and others who espouse the virtues of Pose do so for their own benefit first. Let the buyer beware.

Seeing these Pose "Infomercials" every few weeks makes me chuckle. Constantly having Mr. Huffman comment things he has learned at the Level One of Pose U (whatever that level means) again brings forth a few smiles. The only good thing I have found coming forth from these posts are the studies being posted by individuals who are not awed by "salesmanship". I praise those of you who have taken the time to do legitimate searchs on the biomechanics and are willing to share them with others. The article by Tellez is a fine example of an individual who not only has gone out of his way to understand the events he coaches, but is willing to share his findings and conclusions with others. Anectodal comments are just that. There is no scientific basis to them. Mr. Huffman and others who espouse the virtues of Pose do so for their own benefit first. Let the buyer beware.

Pete,

Hey, if you don't want to change your running for the better you don't have to. I am giving people information that I believe can and will change their running the better. Just as it has mine.

Btw- I am proud to have my level I certification, and I hope you are as happy with your running as I am mine. Good day!

Well, if you can get me back to running close to my pr's, which were (9.7yds, 21.2, 45.4 relay) that would be great. Of course, I did that back in '68, so you have a pretty tough task ahead of you. Thirty five years of coaching some pretty good guys might also give me a little better insight into running than you presently have. I won't bore you with my other credentials, so please don't try and be the savior for slow distance runners, especially when the proof is not in the pudding.

Careful there with the dick-swinging, Mr. Schuder- Huffman has a 3:39 1500 and 1:47 800 that you don't...

Pete Schuder wrote:

Well, if you can get me back to running close to my pr's, which were (9.7yds, 21.2, 45.4 relay) that would be great. Of course, I did that back in '68, so you have a pretty tough task ahead of you. Thirty five years of coaching some pretty good guys might also give me a little better insight into running than you presently have. I won't bore you with my other credentials, so please don't try and be the savior for slow distance runners, especially when the proof is not in the pudding.

I'm amazed why the non-Posers start to bash Pose agressively to prove Pose wrong. It's kinda like a religion. If you were so sure about your belief, there's no need to fanatically prove others' beliefs wrong. Hey, the sun comes up everyday - no need to fanatically bring that message. So there must be some doubt in the non-Posers mind regarding their running technique.

I appreciate Romanov's out-of-the-box thinking and I think he may have some valid points. Not to compare Romanov to Galileo, but also Galileo got a lot of bashing from the science community in his time to prove him wrong...

Happy valentine and happy running to y'all!

It's valentine day wrote:

I appreciate Romanov's out-of-the-box thinking and I think he may have some valid points. Not to compare Romanov to Galileo, but also Galileo got a lot of bashing from the science community in his time to prove him wrong...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the bashing of Galileo along the lines of "that's against what god says in the bible"?

Seems to me that the Poser bashing is based on scientific studies and analysis (several of which have been referenced in this particular thread).

I believe the bashers have even requested proper supporting evidence from the Posers but so far have only received responses about "check out the forums" and "if you don't want to run faster, that's your problem".

Of course, I could have just misread everythig.

After the last 2 years of recurring lower leg injuries, to which I can, without a doubt, not blame on overtraining, I ordered a copy of the Pose book. It arrived yesterday. I'm 40 pages in, and I have to say, I feel like I'm being prepped for the necessary "changes" by an Amway salesman.

To gun/cat-girl: Sorry your manners are such you need to be disrespectful in your posting. My comment to Jeremy was directed to his wanting to help make me a faster runner using the Pose method (something I am dubious about).

For Jeremy: Since we have a mutual friend from your Farm Team days (Gags) and you ran on our facility (2:24 at the Terrier Classic), you might get a different opnion of who I am. I also wonder if you used the Pose System while running at Arkansas and for the Farm Team? I don't remember Gags bringing that technique to my attention in the 30+ years we have known each other.

Best wishes.

During Galileo's days, science basically was what god said in the bible. All scientific evidence was collected with the aim to provide support for what the bible said. If you know what the outcome should be, it's not hard to collect appropriate evidence.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know if Romanov is correct from a scientific point of view, but all the bashing I read is based on evidence to prove Romanov wrong - or based on scientific evidence to prove "regular" running technique is right. Same thing with the physics - lots of evidence gathering is directed by having clear expectations on the outcome. You come up with an hypothesis and start collecting the evidence: done.

Unfortunately, Western society believes that nothing can be true unless it is statistically proven. For me, the following statements are true - with or without statistic evidence:

- an object starts moving when it's put off balance

- objects fall with an acceleration of 9.8m/s[2]

- an object upon which forces work, moves into the direction that is the result of these same forces

- the movement that costs the least amount of energy, is the most efficient

Basically that is what Romanov did - deducing a "truth" using tautological statements like above.

What some people seem to be confused about is push-off versus recoil. Unless you are coming out of the starting blocks, you shouldn't be pushing. That's not to say that there is no forward propuslive force. Forward propulsive force should come through recoil and elastic energy (as posted in Tellez's article cited to "prove" that push-off is necessary).

Push is what leads to injuries like achilles tendonitis. Recoil is what leads to world records. Michael Johnson or Kenny B.---either pushes. Both, however, utilized their natural elasticity by placing themselves in the position to best utilized forward propulsion via recoil. It might look to ya'll like they are pushing, but they aren't.

Vertical propulsion via pushing is a huge waste of energy. It leads to a bouncy up and down running style. Vertical pushing = inefficiency. Forward propulsion via recoil = efficiency.

I have been studying Pose Method for over 3 years. My background is a B.S. in Kinesiology from UT Austin (go Horns!). I started learning Pose after several hamstring pulls during distance running. I have been injury free since starting Pose. I have been a trainer in Austin for 15 years and have found more negative responses to the Pose- runners really want you to prove it! Fortunately, my clients have been open to learning something new and I now have a group of runners with no injuries. I generally train middle and back of the packers with some top age group finishers.

I would encourage anyone interested to log onto the forum on the pose site and to look for a coach in their area.

Read some articles, post your own question- send a video of yourself running- all of the coaches will help you.

It's always a good idea to gain a new perspective.

Keep on running!

Valerie

Pete,

I am quite aware that NONE of the excellent coaches that I have had in my 14 years of running have followed the Pose Method of running technique. I must say that I am greatful for everything that I have learned upto this point in my running carreer from my previous coaches( John Mcdonnell, Frank Gagliano, Vin Lanana). Just because they are not aware of the Pose Method of running does not disprove its existence. Btw- I do believe that if you following the Pose Method model you could become faster, and more efficient regardless of were you are at in life. Good day!

I reworked my mechanics using the Pose Method. I've been training 70-85 mpw with good intensity and not a hint of an injury. I'm really pleased with my progress and have been having more fun running than in years, mainly because I've been able to have consistency without worrying about all the niggles like I used to.

I'm not going to get further into the debate here than to say that it seems that the Pose-bashers base most of their arguments on misconstruing or taking out of context one or two lines from what Romanov says. For example, of course we push against the ground. But Pose advises against trying to lengthen ones stride by actively pushing and using the hip flexor. It's about rhythm. Remember that Romanov is teaching perceptions. The comments about falling are to teach you how to prevent yourself from getting in the way of forward motion; of course the bodies efforts help with the forward motion.

The method is not radical. It's just that some of you get hung up on the language and haven't bothered to study all aspects of the method or to attended a clinic.

Pete: Why do you bait people and then accuse them of bad manners when they react. No disrespect to you, but I've seen you do that numerous times on this board.

I'm sorry that I can't respond in more detail. I don't plan to post further on this thread. I'd rather be running. If you are interested in Pose, check it out. If not, no need to bash those who are. Happy running to all, heel strikers included!

Shoes wrote:

For example, of course we push against the ground. But Pose advises against trying to lengthen ones stride by actively pushing and using the hip flexor.

And that's why us non posers argue. That goes against our thoughts on how to run correctly. The push off comes from extending the hip in my mind and from experts I've talked to.

Check out Haile (and his racemate) not extending the hip and not pushing off----

looking at individual pictures doesn't do much good. If you want to look at pictures you need a frame by frame look to understand a runners stride. Sitting right in front of me is two frame by frame pictures of El Guerrouj in the 1500 and 5k at the olympics. He's extending his hips. I'll try and scan the photos some time.

Check out the forward lean and hamstring pull of these guys (recognize anybody)....they might not have called it POSE, but these dudes are utilizing the principles.

Here's the number one thing stopping most runner (including elites) from running properly----SHOES.

There is a perfectly inverse correlation between the "evolution" of shoes and American distance running performance.

You can't run like these guys with modern running shoes.

That is why the Pose Method does not recommend the use of these over-engineered "cusioned" shoes. I was skeptical at first. With every new acquired skill (Pose Method included), there is an adjustment period, and like every skill, you need to practice constantly. After only 15 weeks of doing Pose, I notice that I do not get sore after EVERY SINGLE RUN, my knees don't hurt constantly, and I'm not shelling out a silly $75 or more for RACING FLATS! I won't even begin to tell you what I spent on "trainers" before the Pose Method. I am not preaching to you, I am just a 35 year old dude that loves to run, but hates to be injured. If I could trade a LIFETIME of PR's and other "look at ME fellow runners!!!" B.S. in order to run injury free, I'd do it...wait a minute...I AM!!! PR's are great, but being able to wake up and go for a run without having to worry if my ankle is still tender, do my knees still hurt from those darn hills, etc. is pretty darned liberating. You folks are bashing Pose because you HAVE NOT TRIED IT!!! Give it a shot. I am the WORST cynic I know...and I decided to spend the $35 or so for the book, and now I am Pose Runner. Before you scoff at the price of the book...How much have you spent on "End Running Injuries forever..." books that claim to have every problem covered? Just give it a try. That is all I ask.