Run CCG are grifters. One of the most talented runners in New York a couple years ago started using run CCG. He was already running fast times before, and got a little faster with run CCG even though they more than doubled his mileage. They were also drilling him with high intensity workouts. He ran 50.9, 1:55, 2:33 1k, 4:24 mile in high school during COVID without many opportunities to race.
He went to Louisville and after 2 years has only run 51.6, 1:57, 2:36, and 4:41 mile. Not even the man who started the NAU dynasty (Heins) could undo the damage done by run CCG.
They overtrain high school runners for short term PRs just to post about those PRs and convince more people to pay for a running plan. They don't care when those runners don't succeed in college. It is the definition of a grift.
Hmm, so a guy who doesn't train speed and only runs a 60 sec 400 in HS would be a 49 sec guy if he trained speed instead. Don't think so, you can't fool mother nature.
Wait…I started using runccg this year. Is it really true colleges are aware look out for runccg? Uh oh.
Yeah dude. Colleges will offer lower scholarships because they know RunCCG athletes are overtrained. A 4:10 miler off 40 miles per week has a much stronger upside than a 4:10 miler off 70 miles per week.
For a walk on spot, a college coach would rather take a shot at doubling a lower mileage high school athletes mileage over 1-2 years than trying to get a Run CCG guy from 80 to 100.
Every athlete is different. I think with a kid, especially if they have talent, the main goal is to get them to college happy and healthy and enjoying running.
Kids with less talent may have to push the envelope more in training, but for most kids 50-60 mpw is fine for junior and senior year boys and 40-45 mpw for girls that age as well. As for tempos, I think for someone running that kind of mileage 3-4 miles would be fine. For someone so young, I'd recommend cruise intervals over tempo. For a HS kid, running 5-6 x 1k at LT with 90 seconds rest is probably plenty.
Also depends on the school and the era. Back in 1970 as a HS senior (sprinter/hurdler) we were forced to run Xcountry, as we did not have football as a fall sport. My TOTAL mileage from Aug. 15- Oct. 27 (2 1/2 months - practice and meets) was 74.7 miles. The thought of running that much milage each week would have destroyed whatever fast twitch muscles I may have had. On the other hand, our HS basketball team usually ran other teams off the court for most of the BB season who came off football seasons.
Every athlete is different. I think with a kid, especially if they have talent, the main goal is to get them to college happy and healthy and enjoying running.
Kids with less talent may have to push the envelope more in training, but for most kids 50-60 mpw is fine for junior and senior year boys and 40-45 mpw for girls that age as well. As for tempos, I think for someone running that kind of mileage 3-4 miles would be fine. For someone so young, I'd recommend cruise intervals over tempo. For a HS kid, running 5-6 x 1k at LT with 90 seconds rest is probably plenty.
Also depends on the school and the era. Back in 1970 as a HS senior (sprinter/hurdler) we were forced to run Xcountry, as we did not have football as a fall sport. My TOTAL mileage from Aug. 15- Oct. 27 (2 1/2 months - practice and meets) was 74.7 miles. The thought of running that much milage each week would have destroyed whatever fast twitch muscles I may have had. On the other hand, our HS basketball team usually ran other teams off the court for most of the BB season who came off football seasons.
Wrong, there is no science to back up your claim that that much mileage would have DESTROYED whatever fast twitch muscles fibers you may have had.
To get to your BEST as a distance runner takes YEARS of developing your AEROBIC SYSTEM. This happens with consistent distance training.
How many high school sprinters have had any level of success after developing their speed then later becoming distance runners?
There's no shortage cut to success.
Yup. These people saying primarily develop your speed in high school, whatever are you talking about? Sure, some runners are built for 800 meters. They're terrific. But some runners come at the 1600 from a slower twitch side, and benefit more from developing their VO2 max and lactate threshold. It does take years to do this, and I don't see how spending the high school years focused on 200 m / 400 m reps benefits a future college runner in this case.
Note: this doesn't mean endless 50-70 mile weeks to develop aerobically. Plenty of smart workouts that don't need that mileage.
To get to your BEST as a distance runner takes YEARS of developing your AEROBIC SYSTEM. This happens with consistent distance training.
How many high school sprinters have had any level of success after developing their speed then later becoming distance runners?
There's no shortage cut to success.
Yup. These people saying primarily develop your speed in high school, whatever are you talking about? Sure, some runners are built for 800 meters. They're terrific. But some runners come at the 1600 from a slower twitch side, and benefit more from developing their VO2 max and lactate threshold. It does take years to do this, and I don't see how spending the high school years focused on 200 m / 400 m reps benefits a future college runner in this case.
Note: this doesn't mean endless 50-70 mile weeks to develop aerobically. Plenty of smart workouts that don't need that mileage.
even most pure 800 guys will burnout on a speed/anaerobic based training. They need more speed and anaerobic work that distance runners but still a good aerobic base and plenty of easy runs and aerobic workouts year round.
Only 800 guys coming from sprint can thrive on a minimal mileage training.
Every athlete is different. I think with a kid, especially if they have talent, the main goal is to get them to college happy and healthy and enjoying running.
Kids with less talent may have to push the envelope more in training, but for most kids 50-60 mpw is fine for junior and senior year boys and 40-45 mpw for girls that age as well. As for tempos, I think for someone running that kind of mileage 3-4 miles would be fine. For someone so young, I'd recommend cruise intervals over tempo. For a HS kid, running 5-6 x 1k at LT with 90 seconds rest is probably plenty.
The above is a very reasonable post and simple guidance.
I would add having HS athletes running 100 mile weeks is only good for the HS coach and short term massive gains for long term detriment. Far too many of the current and past HS stars who broke 4 in the mile or 14 in the 5k did far too much mileage and eventually most fizzed out.
I don't know who CCG is and think calling them out is tasteless. Your point about 5 mile tempos. I agree and disagree. If the athletes is controlled and running the right pace for a threshold I don't think 5 miles is that hard (maybe 1 x a month). I also would say sophomore up. The freshman can stick with a shorter tempo.
However most kids aren't running at the proper pace and that's where things get tricky. A 5 mile tempo at above threshold pace could destroy a lot of kids regardless of their experience. A hs coach cannot personalize everything or ride a bike next to X athlete to keep the correct pace. Keep em shorter is best for HS especially underclass. If you have a junior or senior who can go 5 properly then go for it. Can't hold back the top athletes or expect the young ones to keep up. There needs to be a balance.
Are we sure kids are "burned out" by high mileage and hard training in high school? Or would it be more accurate to say many talented kids don't become college All-Americans for a variety of reasons.
This might be a controversial take, but 5 miles is too long for high school athletes. They don't need to run longer than 20 min for a tempo run.
Some high school private coaches are posting on social media that their athletes are doing 5 mile tempo runs (or longer) averaging around 5:30. That's 27.5 minutes. They have girls doing 30x30 seconds.
Those coaches also have the worst reputations as their athletes do not run well in college. RunCCG athletes have a terrible track record in college. College coaches know to watch out for them.
High school coaches - think long term. Don't burn out your athletes.
I also have to say. You sound like one of those subpar coaches with "my way or the highway" attitudes. You work for the average to beginning runner but the top runners can't stand ya. No wonder top kids go private these days.
Yup. These people saying primarily develop your speed in high school, whatever are you talking about? Sure, some runners are built for 800 meters. They're terrific. But some runners come at the 1600 from a slower twitch side, and benefit more from developing their VO2 max and lactate threshold. It does take years to do this, and I don't see how spending the high school years focused on 200 m / 400 m reps benefits a future college runner in this case.
Note: this doesn't mean endless 50-70 mile weeks to develop aerobically. Plenty of smart workouts that don't need that mileage.
even most pure 800 guys will burnout on a speed/anaerobic based training. They need more speed and anaerobic work that distance runners but still a good aerobic base and plenty of easy runs and aerobic workouts year round.
Only 800 guys coming from sprint can thrive on a minimal mileage training.
I never said they need to do low mileage or purely speed training. I am merely saying that coaches should be careful to monitor the intensity of young athletes (in this case the length of the tempo makes it significantly more intense).
If you can't get an athlete to under 16 in the 5k without doing 5+ mile tempo runs, you are a bad coach.
A 20 minute tempo or 4 mile mile tempo is PLENTY of stimulus for a 16 or 17 year old.
even most pure 800 guys will burnout on a speed/anaerobic based training. They need more speed and anaerobic work that distance runners but still a good aerobic base and plenty of easy runs and aerobic workouts year round.
Only 800 guys coming from sprint can thrive on a minimal mileage training.
I never said they need to do low mileage or purely speed training. I am merely saying that coaches should be careful to monitor the intensity of young athletes (in this case the length of the tempo makes it significantly more intense).
If you can't get an athlete to under 16 in the 5k without doing 5+ mile tempo runs, you are a bad coach.
A 20 minute tempo or 4 mile mile tempo is PLENTY of stimulus for a 16 or 17 year old.
My comment about the 800 wasn't meant to disagree with you but with those saying speed first, mileage later.
Have been mulling this over for many years now. Now doubt that the few coaches who do employ these types of runs with teen athletes have seen very good results in a limited season. The coaches who overdue it have seen disastrous results for the athletes and their long term health. I think tempos of like 6K are the max for HS aged kids.
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